I tried to get persica from Cocker for a friend several years ago. They were not very helpful.
Hi you,
and the breeder of Hardii was … nature. 
Thats what I meant, sorry.
Hardii is a persica hybrid from the 19th century, but the still only known intently bred F1 hybrids are the hybrids
from jack Harkness.
Here are his two articles on breeding with persica:
Nr. 1
and Nr. 2
Where you can also see a tabular and comment by me.
Greetings,
Arno
Link: www.bulbnrose.org/Roses/breeding/Persica/Harkness1989.html
Hi Robert!
I will see how much flowers I can get this year and if possible, you will get seeds. Timo (writing here from time to time, too) also asked me.
Perhaps I can send it to you as “guaranteed cholesterine free cerials” (mixed with cornflakes).
The only thing is, - that it could be the first year, with more than 1 flower per season.
I urgently want to do some crossings which I staked over the last years.
But: If its possible, you will get seeds from a persica-persica pollination.
By the way, i have to say, that I respect your work a lot -for example the “Lila banks” crossing is outstanding.
You would be for sure one of the best candidates around, to bring persica to new shores, I think.
By the way: did you also cross with Rosa suffulta so far?
It should be a good candidate for dry areas and it seems to be tetraploid as I have read in Kruessmanns book.
Thats what you are looking for, am I right?
Greetings!
Arno
“The Quest for the Rose
1993 - Page(s) 64. Includes photo(s).
[Listed under “Wild Roses and Their Cultivars”] An early Rosa persica hybrid. Requires more heat and warmth than most roses. Raised in the Luxembourg Gardens, Paris by its director, Alexandre Hardy, in c. 1786; Rosa clinophylla was said to be the seed parent. Summer flowering. Susceptible to mildew. Height: 6 ft. Some scent.”
This is a man-made hybrid in a Parisien garden, no?
No jadae,
At least as far as I know, this rose was only raised by Hardy, but not bred by him with intent.
He found this hybrid as far as I know.
Kruessmann writes on page 254 of his book “Rosen, Rosen, Rosen”: (…) “Vor 1936 in Paris, Jardin de Luxembourg, entstanden.”
And “entstanden” does not mean “bred”, to me, in english, there is at least more uncertainty, that is expressed in that way. 
By the way: would be interesting, how they translated this sentence in your english Krussmann editions.
Is it also translated with such vague expressions?
Greetings,
Arno
Hi, Arno,
Krussman’s English Edition (1981, Page 250) translates it as “Before 1836, originated in the Jardin de Luxembourg, Paris”
Does any Deustch edition of Krussman have citations for the sources of his info? (Sorry but this is off topic…I’ve been trying to find a resource for the three very odd growth forms of rugosa that he illustrates.)
Ann
This may predate Krussman
Hulthemia Hardii: obtained in 1836 by Monsieur Hardy from a seedling of clinophylla… presumably fecundated by a rosa berberifolia.
Source “Bon Jardinier 1840” as reported by Brent Dickerson in “The Old Rose Adventurer” 1999 p207.
Two references come up on a Google book search
which gives an 1835/6 date and a sour in Ann. Fl and Pom for R. hardii Cels. as an entirely new kind (with “Fleck” used for the blotch)
which makes R. Hardii Cels (R. Hardyi Paxt.)
(Le Bon Jardinier 1840 doesn’t seem to be avaiable on line yet.)
Arno, I live in a good climate to keep Hulthemia species alive out of doors.
Seed would be most welcome when and if you have any to share.
My first attempt in breeding repeat flowering Hulthemia with blotches is pretty much a failure. I get nice plants with repeat flowering but no blotch. I have dismantled the blossoms to inspect the petal base as each seedling flowers.
This is using the pollen parent “I89-2” created by Jim Sproul. I’m thinking the seed parent I chose must be to blame.
It is a very wide cross genetically. I’m thinking the next generation my prove more successful. At least I got some nice seedlings. There are still a few yet left to flower. There is still hope.
There are two other spontaneous crosses between Hulthemia (Rosa Persica) and Rosa listed in Modern Roses. They both originate from the former U.S.S.R. The are: X H. Guzarica and X H. Kopetdaghensis.
Hi you!
Graham Stuart writes in his Gardening book on page 121:
"While some spontaneous hybrids have been reported from the former Sovjet Union, the one I have come across, is that now known as x Hulthemosa hardii (Rosa hardii), presumed to be a cross between Hulthemia persica and Rosa clinophylla. The latter is closely related to R. laevigata and a far cry, botanically, from Hulthemia persica. It appeared in the Jardins de Luxembourg, Paris, in 1036, probably from seed of Rosa persica.
(…)
It is a pleasant thoght that J.A. Hardy, who was no doubt a keen plantsman and rosarian, should be commemorated in this remarkable plant, while his wife has to her credit the famous white Damask Rose ‘Mme Hardy’."
Hmn. … first he points ot that the hybrid “appeared” in the botanical garden … .
And then Graham Thomas calls Hardy a keen plantsman and rosarian.
But - has he ever really bred roses?
I don’t know anymore, where I read this info, I posted here (what was not really important in my eyes) that he didn’t breed this rose, but only raised it, but why are the sources so weak and nobody calls him a rose breeder?
Greetings,
Arno
Hi Robert!
Yes I know that its a good place for persica, there where you live. And I know that you will for sure be able to make good things out of it!
Its of course no joke and that I will share seeds and its only dependend to the number of flowers.
At least 10 would be great to pollinate this season, to get hybrids.
The topic with the missing blotches is difficult, I think, if one looks at the lots of F1 Hybrids with a blotch bred by Jack Harkness, the info for yes / no or in other words, for to have or to have not such a blotch can’t definetly NOT be coded recessive.
It can be divided in several genes and even linkeage groups HOW the blotch is shaped or how strong it will appear … but thats all.
Perhaps Jims info is relevant for you, that the blotch fails to appear in some of the young plants of the hybrids - and if the weather is too hot at that stage of development!
At least THAT is not the problem here in middle europe. 
Greetings & have a good week!
Arno
It has been warm here but then it usually is.
I have other Hulthemia descendants that will come into flower soon, including one that is most likely the first hybrid involving banksia and Hulthemia. THAT should be interesting.
Wow!
Let me tell you this: If you get long and narrow petals with a blotch - it would look like something from outer space!
I am keeping my fingers crosse - for this is cool.
I do have two small plants now, of Rosa banksia lutescens, since a few weeks, i love the single flowers and the colour, but i don’t know if the will already flower this season (presumably not), but that is also what I call a very interesing cross, and what I for sure want to try:
Hulthemia x banksiae lutescens
Greetings,
Arno
Like Jim’s Hulthemia hybrids, my banksia hybrids are now far removed from the species. Still it intrigues to think of the possibilities. Banksia and Hulthemia both have a tendency to produce mildew prone offspring. So far this seedling looks clean.
Banksia is very hard to work with at the species level but the idea of crossing it with Hulthemia sounds wonderful!!
Ok, I know that mildew problem from multiflora, you can have even a few hundred seeds it doesnt’t matter, and its better to cross different things.
For you perhaps hugonis would be interesting because a few of the hugonis individuals should be resistant against powdery mildew.
But again … its ONCE blooming.
I have som ideas to break through that problem, becausethere are lots of reports of healthy recurrent flowering hybrids from diploid recurrent flowering ones and tetraploid healthy ones.
Thats also what I will try this year - with the different hulthemia hybrids.
In my view CHEWtingle seems to be the best, but I might be wrong.
It will take years to compare them and find advantages and disadvantages.
For the banksiae hybrid roses I believe that there is also a strong interest for the odour they are able to spread.
Mildew should be overcome in 2 or 3 Generations (although its at least partly coded quantitative, mainly its coded single dominant).
Greetings,
Arno
Sorry I meant: hybrids from diploid healthy ones and tetraploid recurrent flowering ones (vice versa).
re: mini climbers.
I would probably stay away from that, personally. Theyre among the worst, save for one or two examples, for blackspot in my climate. The reason is because minis already have a massive propensity for blackspot here. This is worsened by the mini climbers tight-knit, dense habit that traps in air circulation.
I would aim for modern shrub or climber in favor of mini climber. Autumn Sunset comes to mind.
One of my books has anouther R. hulth random hybrid of half-unknown origin called Edward Hyams
The book states that it is diploid. From the pics, it looks somewhat healthier and of a darker gold tint.
I will submit info to HMF for it for reference reasons since the info is blank.