Basic question

I don’t think this has been answered above. And when I had Euphrates, it bloomed outdoors, so I didn’t see the answer.

Does the blotch intesify or appear in unfiltered sunlight when it might not appear in a greenhouse or under lights?

Hi Ann,

The blotch shows up best in the spring and fall here when night time tempertures are cooler and on more mature plants. Heat, and possibly light, cause the blotch to fade.

Below is a link to one of my seedlings from last year. Toward the bottom of the page, I compared indoor (greenhouse) blooms to blooms produced outside. They were surprisingly quite similar.

Jim Sproul


Jim, that’s a very pretty rose you have there. Thanks for sharing your pics.

My first hulthemia seedling of the year is starting to bloom. Actually, it should be blooming tomorrow - I couldn’t wait so bent the outside petal back to take a peak and it broke off! But, it does seem to have a fair sized blotch for a new baby.

Will post pictures later.

Jim Sproul


I just opened your photos of K201 at the library today and they took my breath away.

Not only have the petals become more interesting (bigger but with substance) but haven’t you increased the percentage of the area occupied by the blotch?

(Is there a better, prettier word for blotch? If not, we need to make one.)

Your blooms are exciting,


Here is the second seedling from the cross I posted earlier, still no blotch, kinda cute though.

Jed and Ann, thanks for you comments. Yes, there may be a better word than “blotch”. Hmmmmmm? How about splotch!?

Robert, that is a pretty bloom. Sometime the blotch is just a little hint of red at the very base of the petals. I like to take the petals off to better inspect the attachment area of the petals for seedlings that I otherwise like.

Jim Sproul

Here is a photo of the petals of the first new persica of the season to bloom. Though the colors are not that exciting, the blotch size is fairly large for a first bloom on a tiny seedling.

Jim Sproul

Instead of blotch, how about eye?

Whats wrong with blotch?

Although from a different genetic source, how about if we are consistent with Ralph Moore and the term halo? Are there significant differences in appearance that would warrent the trait of a conentrated area of anthocyanin pigment near the petal base for Hulthemia persica hybrids versus that of Ralph Moore’s halo roses?



Early on and from total ignorance, I assumed that Mr. Moore’s Halo line of roses were from Hulthemia. When I talked to Caroline to place an order, she told me that they weren’t.

The word blotch isn’t a marketing word. Saying that a rose has blotched petals isn’t going to inspire someone to go out and collect all the blotched roses in rosedom. (Maybe it sounds too much like botched?)

Roses with halos sounds so much nicer.

I can see halo-ed roses for Mary gardens…rose gardens dedicated to the Virgin Mary.

But it would confuse the heck out of folks …not that it would matter to most buyers and would increase the number of available roses. Just muttering to myself.

Your thoughts?

Maybe it would be an “in” thing, to know the difference.

What’s in a name??!

I suppose that no one would want to buy a “botched up” or even a “blotched up” rose!

Some in Europe are calling them “eyes”. One of Chris Warner’s persicas is called ‘Tiger Eyes’. I’m not sure how many good names would exist though with that sort of name. I have thought that one named “Red Eyes” or “Pink Eyes” might not sell that well here in the U.S. since that makes us think of infections of the eye.

Halo roses, I think, have been trademarked by Mr. Ralph Moore. And the placement of the coloring on the petals is different from the hulthemias - so I agree with Carolyn, that they are different. Looking closely at the petals of the halo roses, you will see that the coloring of the halo extends farther out on the petal from the apex toward the lateral margins of the petals, while in the hulthemia “blotch”, the coloring extends farther out toward the middle of the petals.

How about “target”, or “bull’s eye” roses?! Or “center glow”? Or “aura”? Or…

Jim Sproul



Have you ever examined your flowers under UV light? Might be interesting, see

LOL! “spots on the persian rug…”

haha j/k

Hi you!

For example, bees are able to view ultraviolet spectrum too.

And there are some parts on the Hulthemia Persica plants, which made me think of some effects like UV-reflection before … .

Look right in the grey-blueish center, where to we have to pollinate these flowers … . :wink:

I will try a foto under UV light if I got a persica flower this year … hmn. Could be tricky to get such a foto, as the flower closes at night - but I have got an idea.



Have you seen some of the potentillas under UV in that great link? … =-)

Thank you for that Link Don!

so … the hulthemia “blotch” is coded in more rosaceae then we knew … and its visible for some insects, i am sure, even if there are no bees around.

Thats great news!

Perhaps we should make some uv-testings with other wild roses and some of the interesting hybrids, as there could be more genetically coding info for blotches within rose flowers, that are invisible for us, but not to some of the important insects!!


Thats great!

Greetings from Germany,


btw, several similar flowers have the same eye spot that may have research done on them.

Potentilla come to mind: Potentilla nepalensis

They are from the same family as roses.

Some pelargoniums. Some Coreopsis such as Coreopsis ‘Autumn Blush’. And many more Im not remembering.