I don’t know if anyone has had the opportunity to compare these two as I imagine they are not readily available on the same continent, but am soliciting thoughts.
I have been wanting to try hanging a purple flowers on grey foliage using, as breeding stock, R. fedtshenkoana, an appropriate R. rugosa cultivar, R. glauca, and some more modern purples down the line. (Once had my Reine des Violettes adjacent to R. fedtshenkoana, and the flower of the one against the foliage of the other was stunning.)
I’m hopeful too that in utilizing R.f. and R.r, I might get remontancy sooner than later in the hybridizing. A couple years back, I know Tom Silvers mentioned a R.g. / R.r. cross with “colorado spruce blue” foliage.
Would love to hear of experiences using AE and BP. Where is best availability in States?
I have Basye’s Purple and have a few op seedlings from it this past Winter. Will have to wait to see what comes out of those seedlings.
I also have several R. Glauca X R. Fedtschenkoana seedlings from last year and will have to wait and see if any flower this year. I know I have one which had dark red/purple foilage and the rest have grayish foilage but not as grey as R. Fedt. I actually tried putting Basye’e purple on R. Glauca two years ago but B.P. bloomed too late to get very many polinations so only had one hip and none germinated but I believe Glauca and B.P.would work if one had enough polinations.
‘Ann Endt’ started off well here… I was impressed with it in every way. Then later in the season it started to come undone. It got mildew badly on all the flower buds (only… which was a pain for pollinating as flower buds with mildew scars/infetions failed), and the leaves began burning in the heat. It made ungainly unbalanced water shoots that stuck up randomly above a neatly mounded plant. These watershoots were differently and excessively thorned. The plant has also, at the end of the season, collapsed in the middle for some reason almost as if something had sat on it (which is possible around here). It flowered well and continuously and is still flowering now. It regected almost every pollen I put on it but every open pollinated flower formed a big fleshy red hip. It was most frustrating. Some would seem to take and then abort midway into the piece. I was trying strange crosses. The only two that did take (and were subsequently eaten by some critter) was with “Temple Bells” and ‘Cricket’ (just quietly I had the same spectular failure with ‘Scabrosa’ this year as well. Nothing wanted to take and the only ones that took (and were also subsequently eaten by something when huge, fat and red) was with ‘Cricket’ and ‘Rise n Shine’. I’m beginning to think the two events were related and that maybe plants of certain groups will experience shared ‘down years’ in response to particular prevailing weather patterns and that I should write this year off as a bad year for rugosa and it’s hybrids and just try again next year… though rugosa ‘alba’ was more cooperative and ‘Ann Endt’, ‘Scabrosa’, and ‘alba’ pollen has worked far more reliably on a lot of the wide crosses I also tried the other way around). ‘Ann Endt’ seeds germinate extremely easily… to the point that I am going to make sure I collect all the OP hips this year because if I don’t I’m going to have feral seedlings coming up everywhere of their own accord as various animals pick them off and spread the seed. The OP seedlings grow pretty much true-to-type in terms of foliage and habit and grow strongly. Very few culls among them last season based on vigour. As expected I have not seen any flowers on first season seedlings even when matched with fully remontant partners.
So, I’ll try it again next season, but it was a failure for me this season.
I have a R. foliolosa seedling that is very similar in appearance to ‘Basye’s Purple’, but more compact and well-branched. (See link) My seedling sets copious seed (unlike Basye’s Purple, which does not) and the seed germinates easily. This plant appears to take pollen from a wide variety of roses as well. I am willing to send you a piece of this to use in breeding if you’d like to experiment with it.
Paul, that looks very interesting. Is it recurrent?
I would love to experiment with it, but I doubt, particularly this time of year, that I would have any luck attempting to root such. (We’re hitting upper 70’s now down here, and while I’m not familiar with the foliolosa’s, I find many roses particularly troublesome to root in spring when they are wanting to push buds instead.)
Not being familiar with R.f., let alone its progeny – and as I was seeking the rugosa side of Endt and BP for recurrence and ability to produce silver/blue foliage – I’m wondering if you could comment on this plant’s merits in that regard.
I must say that I’m intrigued by it…
BTW, most sites refer to R.f. as the “white prairie rose” but I notice that Rogers Roses illustrates a red flowered rose under that name…
Simon, I don’t know whether to thank you for your input, or send you a sympathy card. At the very least, you have put my mind to ease over any potential frustrations at not being to acquire the plant. So thank you!
Yes, it is very generous with repeat in my garden. Much better in my experience than ‘Basye’s Purple’. I’m not offering cuttings, I have a spare plant of it in a band pot I can send you.
My hybrid bears no resemblance to the Rugosas, but my specimen of R. foliolosa does. (I have reason to believe that my plant is in fact not pure R. foliolsa but a hybrid with R. rugosa. See URL) Mine is a medium-to-dark pink on the magenta side, as you will see when you follow the link below. The full story is included there. There is no telling what might come from my seedling in breeding. I have only just started using it as a breeder and this year’s crop is the first to include intentional crosses. The cross using ‘Therese Bugnet’ pollen is sprouting like grass! I made that cross with no regard whatsoever to the bloom color or type, focusing entirely on two species dominant, Winter hardy remontant shrubs. Both are essentially carefree in many climates, so I’m curious to see if these qualities follow through into my seedlings. I’m hoping this might provide an avenue for the creation of some truly zero maintenance shrubs for cold climates.
Let me know if (and when) you want this plant.
I sent you a message to your personal email. Let me know if you don’t receive it.
Basye’s Purple has prettier foliage, canes and blooms, but Ann Ann Endt seems to be a fuller plant that blooms a lot. Also, it sets hips all season long, whereas I find BP to be stingy in both bloom quantity and fertility.
Sorry I’m so late to jump in on this one.
I don’t have any experience with ‘Ann Endt’. I tried growing ‘Basyes Purple’ for a while. Unfortunately, it never was happy here, but the few blooms I did get to see are etched into my memory.
You had mentioned… “A couple years back, I know Tom Silvers mentioned a R.g. / R.r. cross with “colorado spruce blue” foliage.”
From ordinary rugosa using glauca pollen, I got a batch of seedlings that were pretty much uniform in appearance except for there being two different flower colors (a fairly light pink and a darker, fuschia pink). They all had the “blue-spruce-colored foliage”. No remontancy, but they are fertile. There are three pictures at the link below: one closeup of the two color forms, and a rugosa flower held up to each color form. The third picture, with rugosa held up to the light-flowered form, best shows just how glaucous the foliage really is. I tried on a small scale some backcrosses to rugosa - my thinking being that I could regain remontancy and hopefully maintain the foliage color. I only germinated 6 or 7 seedlings of which maybe four are still alive, but one of the seedlings did show some glaucousness of the new leaves that faded with age. I still think this is a reasonable strategy to try.
I’ve read somewhere that ‘Carmenetta’ (from the same two species but in reverse) produces pollen with a whole range of chromosome numbers. I always thought that it would be a good one to use, if you wanted to work toward foliage color. I ordered a plant once, but received something mislabeled, so I’ve never gotten to try ‘Carmenetta’.
I’ve got a feeling fedtschenkoana would be a productive way to go too.
Those look great Tom. The hybridity is really pronounced.
Fedtschenkoana is the way to get to blue foliage. DLFEDs are even faster. Here are some from this week. Fedtschenkoana bud with highly scented “moss”.
Repeat Orangeade X Fed. new growth showing quite blue tints. This is the one Paul Barden has and is using.
Dottie Louise X Fedtschenkoana new growth. The inclusion of Basye’s Legacy intensified not only flower but all the rest of the plant parts. The blue tints of the foliage are much more saturated than in previous seedlings or even the species.
Tom, thanks. I recalled you had numerous interesting species crosses, and that was one which intrigued me. Apparently, however, I was wrong in hanging a lot of the silver/blue foliage on the rugosa end of things.
I gather obtaining remontancy from R. glauca won’t be an easy task.
And thanks, Kim. I do have your R. fedtshenkoana (in a pot, alas) which managed to survive the neglect during hurricane Katrina. I have yet to actually be able to work with it, but am hoping to do so soon.
I’m suprised to read that your crosses are once-bloomers. Is Dottie Louise x R. fedt. still a tad bristley? Or is it relatively smooth?
Wow! Philip, I am amazed the Fedtschenkoana survived not only the hurricane, but a year of your not being there to take care of it! That sounds as if it should make strong babies, doesn’t it?
The DLFED seedlings are still a tad “bristly”, though they vary greatly. All but one are pretty much once bloomers, though they seem to respond to milder climates like Banksia does, “repeating” with weather fluctuations. One does repeat, and that one doesn’t sucker.
Thanks Robert and Philip. In most traits, the F1 rugosa X glauca hybrid is almost exactly intermediate between the two species (when the cross is done with glauca as pollen parent). Sadly though, remontancy is one of the exceptions to this. I’ve got glauca again now, and hope to try some more crosses with it soon.
But Kim, I’d have to agree with your statement
“Fedtschenkoana is the way to get to blue foliage.”
especially after seeing all those cool seedlings of yours.
I have a fedtschenkoana on it’s way - thanks to the extreme kindness and determination of Patrick. I say determination because I haven’t been able to get the first two suckers he’s sent (on two separate occassions) to establish. I’d like to be able to blame it on something happening in shipping, but he sent a ‘Joycie’ along with one of those, and ‘Joycie’ is doing just fine. I’d really like to work with fedtschenkoana, so do any of you guys growing it have any special recommendations for conditions it prefers. The new one will probably get here Monday Patrick said, so I’m preparing it a spot this weekend. Any suggestions as to site and soil?
Good luck, Tom! Fed. isn’t difficult to grow at all. I’d think the problem you’ve had with establishing it is probably the suckers drying out before rooting. I can tell you, my observation is it hates being potted. I had a huge stand of it in my old Newhall garden and it suckered madly everywhere it wanted. Since potting one sucker several years ago, it doesn’t sucker at all in that pot. The seedlings (the ones which are prone to suckering) fill their cans and escape out the drain holes, but not the species.
I’ve had it helped itself to sand, clay and potting soil, with and without water. I do believe it prefers heat to cold and damp. I started someone suckers of DLFED recently and they all exploded in a pot of Miracle Grow Moisture Control potting soil. Amazing growth, very quickly. Hopefully, you’ll have more than one sucker. If you do, put one in a pot and they others in the ground. Good drainage is needed.
I’m sorry, I mean average to good drainage in the pot is needed. In the ground, once established, the species will grow wherever it wants, drainage or not. I’d also suggest balancing the top growth to the length of the roots as you would with any transplant. You may also experiment with mounding the sucker as you would for a newly planted bareroot.
I brought home suckers from R. Californica in January. All were cut back to balance the tops and length of the roots. All were potted in Miracle Grow Moisture Control potting soil in one and two gallon nursery cans and put in filtered sun. All sixteen have leafed out and filled the cans. They’re going to help stablize an erosion area on the back hill.
Tom I only sent one plant, it is not a sucker anymore. It has been in that 3 gallon pot since last May and has beaucoup roots. I would just dig a hole a little bigger than the rootball and put some ammended soil aroung the roots and let it go, with some watering at first. The top has already been cut off so you should start geting some suckers after the roots are settled in and estalished. I just know this one will make it