The only Wichurana I’ve ever seen actually sucker is Wichurana Variegata. For a partial albino, it is the most invasively vigorous plant I have encountered. It’s pretty, but I would never deliberately plant it!
Hi Don!
Conard Pyle from my understanding is shifting all to own root. They are selecting new cultivars that can grow well own root. The goal is to have greater flexibility in being able to sell liners of their genetics for other nurseries to grow on in containers for sale (Greenheart and Northwest Hort are their key propagators). They grow their bareroot in CA and will shift the remaining grafted roses that can do well own root to own root production from raising out rooted liners. If I understand right, they have used Dr. Huey on the west coast. Own root production also helps to streamline the operation and not need to depend on increasingly limited and expensive labor forces that are well trained and available to do the budding.
I would try something super faithful and hardy in your area and see if it works well. People in my area have tried and used ‘Lilian Gibson’. As you try different rootstocks, look for incompatibility issues. Some rootstocks over time with scions typically lead to very large, swollen bud unions. Sections die off over time and is due in part to a lack of a free flow of photosynthates down through the graft. With the backup, extra growth occurs above the graft leading to the problem of a compromised bud union over time. Some of these incompatibility issues take time to show up.
I have an interspecific Rosa eglanteria hybrid with super vigor and the surprisingly ability to root well from cuttings. I think it would be a great hardy alternative for a rootstock in colder climates (it has long canes and would be worth trying for tree roses too). It wasn’t born at the right time to be seriously trialed as a great rootstock.
LOL… after my thornless multiflora seedling (kept as potential rootstock) failed me by showing chlorosis in its first year of life, I decided to try this as an alternative rootstock…
Here then are my seven R.wichurana rootstock cuttings:
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These have just had all bud eyes (except top most one) removed, and are ready for planting directly into soil (one per pot).
Have no clue if this is gonna work, but I have no other use for that potential R.wichurana monster climbing up my mom’s house!
…
I thought I had lost thes best of my Rosa canina x Rosa multiflora seedlings, but it is thriving. It is essentially a dwarf canina. When it blooms next year, which it should, I’ll cross it onto Paul’s Trier/0-47-19 hybrid. I hope I can make my own root stock, although I have no idea why I want to, except to just… try.
That’s even crazier than my idea…
LOL
:O)
Boredom is the father of invention? 
LOL… you bored!!!
Anyways, it might turn out a great rootstock, good luck!!
I think most of us are collectors as much as we are breeders so it’s a good idea, I think, to have a stash of understocks available for those times when people send you things in the mail for your collection so you can bud them up and get them going. I have good success with cuttings but as much as it pains me to say it, budding is a faster and more reliable way of getting a few plants going. Once I manage to get a plant going then I feel like I have the luxury of striking cuttings (unless they are plants that I know will strike like the ‘Heart of Gold’ cuttings I got recently… they all got wrapped up and had callouses within 9 days), though I usually only receive propagating material during winter when I can’t easily graft. So… I think breeding your own rootstock has lots of merrit and it’s why I have a few different ones on hand to try at any one time from OP multiflora plants to ‘Dr Huey’ to the ones I mentioned above. You don’t want risk passing on viruses so having your own seedling raised understock is like a little bit of insurance against it (unless it arrives that way in which case it usually gets dumped here… not always… but usually). I would never graft one of my own seedlings onto anything other than an understock I bred/raised myself. I’m lucky to have acres of land to grow these things but I think most people could find a spot for at least one stock plant for understocks to use for securing stock. From memory I have a few of the ‘Indica Major’ x ‘Poynton’s Multiflora’ plants in pots around the place from newly struck cuttings. If anyone wants one they are welcome to contact me.
lol… if the wichurana idea works (just an experiment-not going to be used for any important roses, just crappy ones), I’ll then be using its OP seedlings next season for the real “virus-clean” version of wichurana rootstock.
It all takes sooooo much … time … ugh …
Ahh yes, I forgot to add, it has wicked tiny little hooked prickers…OUCH !!
Pictured today, here are those R.wichurana rootstock sticks which had been deliberatley plonked unceremoniously in a muddy / heavy soil a few days ago (no other pre-treatments applied prior to planting these sticks) !!
I wanna see if they are that easy to root by using a less than perfect media for the job here.
Note our lovely dry conditions today (joke) LOL!!!
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…
Possible virus issue aside… how do you think a long cane from ‘Climbing Cecile Bruner’ would go as an understock for standards? I was walking around the multifloras here looking for a long sturdy branch I could strike and graft ‘Nozomi’ and ‘Laura Ashely’ onto to make tall weeping standards and didn’t find any suitable. Then I noticed 'CCB’s canes that are about 15mm in diametre (maybe more) and they grow incredibly vigorously here and the canes are strong and straight with not many thorns. I could make 6ft standards out of these easily if I manage to strike such a long cane. I’ve not seen virus in this plant so don’t suspect it to be infected and my past experience with this CCB is that I went through a lot of plants before finding one that didn’t show signs of virus; it seems to exhibit symptoms clearly if infected. My plant is a few years old now and the other thing that impresses me about CCB’s branches is how quickly they thicken up. I’m sure it could make a self-supporting rose tree in no time at all, though I’d be braqcing it with a star picket. The plant has been in the ground for about 4 years and had achieved roughly 20ft of spread over a garden seat I’d built. Its trunk is about as thick as my arm already at the base. Last summer I cut it back hard as I’d planned to move it now in winter but it respouted and threw about 15 long stout canes that are now about 10ft long and in our strange non-winter we are experiencing it is still fully leafed out and growing hard.
I think it really needs to be tested out to see and over a good length of time as well even if the result seems good at first (experiment with it), and then having done that… results are likely also going to be very location dependant…
I once messed with a type of ?R.multiflora as a possible rootstock for standards, as it had long canes. It struck ok, but the standard I created lacked vigor, and scion and rootstock both died after like 8 years. Possible issues: ? graft incompatibility ??short life expectancy of the rootstock selected ???other issues???
It seems a real hit and miss scenario, but prolly worth messing around with if ya have a genuine need to do this.
Judge Henry Fonda (no, not THAT Henry Fonda) who lived in Mar Vista, near Santa Monica for years, operated a small nursery in his yard. He attempted standards of Cl. Mlle. Cecile Brunner and found “bud incompatability” in many instances. Pretty much nothing took to them and incompatability was the only reason he could figure.
UPDATE ON R.wichurana sticks pictured above (experiment to see if any good as rootstock):
Some of those pictured above started to throw up shoots from incision sites under the soil line where they had been deeply de-eyed, so I pulled 'em out fast months ago (not a beneficial development !).
There were three left as of this morning, and I decided to investigate their underneaths before potting up into larger pots.
WELL…
My specimen of R. wichurana seems to be unreliable at rooting…
Here is one of them many months later (this morning) and it has NO ROOTS despite promising top growth (destroyed as you can see !):
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These two remiaining ones had reasonable root balls and will be kept as rootstock, however one of them had a stem coming up out of buried de-eyed zones (and they were deepply de-eyed !!).
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Looks like R. multiflora is better in my location as rootstock, now to find one that doesn’t get bad chlorisis !!
Don,
Do you want to try my canina x multiflora? Alternatively, I have Paul Barden’s 04719/Trier hybrid, which also looks like it’d be a root stock, but I’d have to ask if it is okay to share it for root stock.
Michael, thanks and yes, I would like to get a start of your canina x multiflora. I’ll ask Paul about the Trier hybrid. I’ll send you my address by pm.
Michael, does canina mildew for you? Since you mentioned your development of canina x multiflora seedlings for rootstocks I’ve started to germinate a few rubiginosa seeds to do a similar thing. There are lots of choices around here to try on them but it worries me that rubiginosa seedlings mildew quite badly. Their roots are quite long and robust and this seems to suggest to me that rubiginosa’s susceptibility may come from its leaves and not from its roots and any related water stress issues. It also concerns me that there has been mention on here that there is more than just vigour conferred to the scion material from the understock. I think it was Henry that posted a link some years back that described research showing an exchange of genetic material (cytoplasmic???) from the understock to the scion which then influenced the overall disease resistance properties of the scion material. Have you tried striking cuttings of your canina x multiflora? I tried many times to strike rubiginosa and failed every time. Does putting multiflora into the mix improve its strike-rate? These canina x multiflora plants should be pentaploid as well shouldn’t they, given canina produce x4 ovules and x1 pollen? Will ploidy mismatches affect scion compatibility?
During the budding season, I actually did try using my Wichurana seedlings. The outer layer did not peel back correctly, I determined that it was going to be a waste of time to use them, and I discarded the seedlings. I abandoned the idea for now, as Multiflora is still legal (for now) in my state. Looking back, I probably should have tried chip-budding with them. I need to try to learn that technique. Many people use it, but I have never tried it.
Andy