Multiflora has been outlawed in my state leaving me to find a suitable alternative. I do have some canina seedlings but these are proving to be too slow growing to be worth the effort of maintaining them. I’d look for a source of Dr. Huey but I’m fearful of getting virused stock and not knowing it.
Can anyone suggest any alternatives for me here in zone 5b?
Don, if Huey is suitable for your climate and soil, Virus Indexed material can easily be purchased from Foundation Plant Services at UC Davis. They carry many various stocks so one may be more suitable than another for you. Of course, there is no “guaranty” of no infection, but at least it has been tested and treated, much better than anything else you can obtain, probably including seedlings. Click on “Rose” then follow it where you want to go. There is a list of cultivars available as well as the stocks. Hope it helps!
What is it about Dr. Huey that makes it undesireable as rootstock? I have read here all sorts of names for it like Dr. Phooey etc. Is it because it has been virused for so long? If that’s the case then it would seem like UC Davis would be the go to source.
Are there commercial rose growers in your area Don, what do they use there?
Like many roses, Huey is a mercenary. Any potential for coming up and it does. There are as many surface roots as with any other rose and the standard practice for many gardeners is to cultivate under their roses to “aerate the soil” and “improve drainage”. Break those feeder roots and they take the advantage and begin growing. I’ve encountered many “forests” of Huey in older neighborhoods, mainly due to “cultivating” the soil.
Also, like many roses (and other plants) the roots grow to the surface when watering is too shallow, where they break into growth where you don’t expect them to. It’s a very tenacious rose, so any parts left in the ground when removing the old plant are pretty much guaranteed to resprout. You can dig it out multiple times and it still returns. All the things which make it a tremendous stock, also make it a real pain in the patout where and when it’s not wanted. But, all of those things can also be said for any other stock when it escapes. Odorata and Ragged Robin are found all over in these parts from former budded plants where the scions have died and the stocks refuse to. Odorata has been collected from all over as a “found” OGR only to be identified once it had colonized where it was planted for study.
I have a mountain of Manetti out back which escaped from under a Lili Marleen that was planted over thirty years ago. Lili is still there but about a fifth the size of the Manetti. I use the Manetti to support the Basye’s Thornless Wichurana and Banksiae lutescens until I can figure out where to actually plant them. Anything which makes a rose a good stock is also going to make it a noxious weed.
Don,
I’ve got some wichuriana seedlings I germinated last year. You’re welcome to try some to see if they are suitable? The root systems appear to be pretty good, and already escaping out of the holes in the bottom like multiflora does. I have Mike Chute trying some as well. I’ve also used ‘Abigail Adams’ seedlings that are once-blooming. They appear to work o.k.?
Kim and Jeff,
Doesn’t U.C. Davis make you pay for the plants you make with their stocks? I think I read that in the fine print on their website? Or, is that just if you sell a plant made from their budwood?
Andy
I think that’s for commercial use in production. Many people obtain their stock and no one has complained they had to pay for plants they grew for themselves after buying the material.
How far or wide is ‘Manetti’ used in the USA/Canada.
I don’t know of anyone using it currently. At one time, it was popular for greenhouse production. I don’t know if it still is. Someone used it through the nineties. In the early nineties at a Huntington Old Rose Symposium, John Elsly, the horticulturist for Wayside Gardens, spoke, introducing the new English roses, Sharifa Asma and Bibi Mazoon. He stated Wayside received the new English roses from Austin on Manetti. They grew very well, developing into huge, productive plants, all of which blew over in a wind storm as the Manetti had developed “carrot root” with few side roots. All the plants had to be staked against the wind! Imagine a garden full of roses laying on their sides from winds and you’re responsible for evaluating them for introduction! LOL!
Thanks Kim. Good information.
You’re welcome!
I find Indica major quite good as a rootstock. Did some research on the net and found it to be Saline tolerate and able to withstand nematode attacks. It caluses very rapidly as well.
And, it is IMMORTAL! Equisetum has nothing on this rose!
So I gather you like it Kim lol
Not for my soil and climate. It has escaped all over the Gold Country and in many abandoned gardens and old cemeteries. If I have to have an artificial set of roots, Huey is my choice. It’s the easiest for an amateur to work with and the most suitable for my soil, water and climate.
Make your own…
I have a ‘Temple Bells’(wichurana basically) x thornless multiflora (Poynton’s Multiflora) seedling as well as an Indica Major’ x ‘Poynton’s Multiflora’ seedling that are both rampant, have root systems like you’ve never seen before, strike like weeds, and will be tested as a rootstock next season. The Indica Major seedling is pretty smooth as well. ‘Dr Huey’ pollen works as too. ‘Veilchenblau’ x wichurana would make a good one too…
In particular I like the ‘Temple Bells’ x ‘Poynton’s Multiflora’. It made long 4-5ft canes in its first season.
This stem is from a 1st year seedling’s new growth. I think it will be great for budding onto as it matures and makes thicker stems. The leaves are thick, waxy and shiny like wich and serrated with fringed stipules like multiflora. I’ll be selfing this one next season to see of a thornless version can be made. Flowers only once so far and is a nondescript single light pink.
In the eastern portions of the United States, the soil tends to be acidic, and roses budded on Dr. Huey over time do not do as well since it prefers a more alkaline soil and over time the DH roots lose vigor… Multiflore is the understock of choice in the east since it does well with its more acidific soils. When Jackson and Perkins was located in Newark, New York, up by the Great Lakes, I believe they used multiflora for the understock and then when they switched their business to California, switched their understock to Dr. Huey.
Jim P
You could try white Iceberg (V Indexed).
Thanks for all these suggestions.
Kim, I have nothing against Dr Huey and I actually toured UCDavis’ Foundation Plant Services last fall. I did not have my camera at hand but I.ve been meaning to get some photos from the tour taken by my companions. If I do I’ll pst them here.
Simon, I like the idea of making my own and I am watching my seedlings for likely candidates.
George, there are no commercial rose growers in my district, probably the closest being Conard Pyle down in coastal Pennsylvania about two degrees latitude south of here. I don’t know what CP uses, maybe Jacques Ferar can fill us in about that when he comes by.
Andy, thanks for the offer of Wichuraiana but I am not sure it would be hardy here as we are a bit colder than you are and, of course, it suckers like crazy. Then next time I’m in Hartford I may grab a start of the one that they tried to kill at Elizabeth Park when the ‘renovated’ the Heritage Garden. It has resurrected like a Pheonix.
Warren, the Indica’s are way too tender for me but your success with it does underscore the point that whatever works best in your climate is a good candidate.
Don,
I’m up on the Connecticut/Rhode Island Massachusetts corner. We are in zone 5b, contrary to what the U.D.A. zone maps indicate. We have the identical weather as Thompson, Connecticut and Uxbridge, Massachusetts. The past winter was a mild one, however. I find it interesting that you say Wichuriana suckers. I find that mine stays put, but the lax canes layering on the ground spread the species around. Maybe what I have here is actually a different species? I’ll post some pictures of it when it flowers.
Andy