2022 Hybridization List - Todate

Well all crosses using x R. fedtschenkoana and x Polstjarnan as seed parents failed (except maybe John Cabot on Pols) - only one hip from R. fedsdtschenkoana reached the orange colored ripening stage - the one l did not try to pollinate :joy:.

l used every bloom R. fedtschenkoana except the one l left as a control … l assume pollination done by the competency nature as OP ?

Technique or incompatibility conjectures to resolve next year.

On the upside it appears R. fedtschenkoana as the pollen parent is not preventing hip generation on crosses l didn’t check every one.

… also did R. fedtshenckoana x Lykeefund as F x M cross - not in table. Failed.

Yeah, that result using R. fedtschenkoana as a seed parent seems about like what I’d expect–I had similar problems with R. (laxa?) ‘Ross Rambler’ (#1?), which is not too distantly related as things go. On top of that, any tetraploid (f) x diploid (m) cross is going to have even lower odds of producing viable seeds, in my experience. Pollen from R. fedtschenkoana should work better. Still, that’s a very long list of crosses. If you get even a fraction to set, you might have your work cut out for you!

Stefan

Hi Stefan txs for the feedback. As you can tell this season l went basically full-time at it because been itching to do it with the plantings (now can due to benefits of retirement).

Still have not ceased, but dropped off significantly as into whats left blooming that l think l should dab test with stored pollen.

Now pursuing potential crosses for tall hardy to semi hardy “landscapers” (now that on tertiary level seed parent targets a.k.a. still blooming) … e.g. mainly Winnipeg Parks, Chinook Sunrise, Jonh Franklin “ the maybe “, John Cabot and Canadian Shield.

Trying for red-red-yellow blends so they are getting pollinated frequently and robustly with variety of pollens from moderns, heritage and species.

All in the context of a “regional garden” reconn survey of crossing potential, as a default to doing a comprehensive researching of backgrounds genetics and narrowing margins … easier and faster to just do it and see. And document, document and document.

And not forgetting it is “fun” after 25 years of growing them.

Harvesting of 2022’s field crossing, and 2 O.P.s completed today. No poloidy, prework done for variety crossing selections.

Guide used was qualitative knowledge (garden performance experience) to guess parents selections that could produce full hardy, or trying to amp up hardiness of a cross to in between a full hardy parent, and a tender parent. At the same time retaining aesthetic attributes of the better looking, but tender,parent.

Unadulterated “Hard Stats” Results:

  • Total Crossings = 128 / 100%


  • Crossings producing harvested seed = 64 / 50%


  • Failed Crossings = 64 / 50% (no hip formation or no seed)

Total Seeds = 1500 +/- 20%

  • % Garden stock varieties tested (55-65%)

Germination Results ? TBD by April 2023

It was a great knowledge gaining exercise, and fun. I now have a better handle on my roses’ potential. Just need a measure of the germination potential of the crosses.

Positive and other types of leanings obtained for technique improvement.

This is the vetted version

2022 Crossing Survey Crosses - Field Season to September 16 2022

Hips and Seeds Combo - y or n

1 (RDxS) x Basye Purple y
2 (RDxS) x Helenae hybrida y
3 (RDxS) x Hunter y
4 (RDxS) x Lykkefund n
5 6910 x (RDxS) n
6 6910 x Alika Y
7 6910 x R. fedtschenkoana y
8 6910 x RR#1 y
9 Auli x 6910 y
10 Auli x OP y
11 Auli x R. fedtschenkoana y
12 Austrian Copper x Suzanne y
13 Basyes Purple x R. fedtschenkoana n
14 Bayse Purple x Hunter n
15 Bill Reid x Helenae hybrida y
16 Bill Reid x Lykeefund y
17 Bill Reid x Merveille n
18 Butterball x (Austrian Copper+Nelly Kelly) y
19 Butterball x Nelly Kelly y
20 Butterball x Williams double Yellow y
21 Canadian Shield x (R. fedts+Lykeefund+Helenae h) n
22 Canadian Shield x L83 n
23 Canadian Shield x Merveille n
24 Canadian Shield x R. fedtschenkoana n
25 Canadian Shield x Tove Janseen n
26 Carefree Beauty x (Olds College+Bill Reid) y
27 Carefree Beauty x Bill Reid n
28 Carefree Beauty x Chinook Sunrise y
29 Carefree Beauty x Merveille y
30 Carefree Beauty x Northern Yellow n
31 Carefree Beauty x Olds College y
32 Carefree Beauty x R. fedtschenkoana y
33 Chinook Sunrise x Merveille n
34 Chinook Sunrise x Northern Yellow y
35 Chinook Sunrise x Prairie Peace n
36 Dr Merkeley x Merveille n
37 Ernst Dorelle x 6910 n
38 Ernst Dorelle x R. fedtschenkoana n
39 Francofurtana x Lillian Gibson y
40 Francofurtana x Lykkefund y
41 Francofurtana x Prairie Peace n
42 Francofurtana x Ristimunni n
43 Helena hybrida x Isabelle Skinner y
44 Helena hybrida x R. fedtschenkoana n
45 Helena hybrida x RDxS y
46 Helenae hybrida x (RR #1+Bill Reid) n
47 Helenae hybrida x Bill Reid y
48 Helenae hybrida x L83 y
49 Helenae hybrida x Olds College n
50 Hunter x (RDxS) y
51 Hunter x Basye Purple y
52 John Cabot x 6910 n
53 John Cabot x Basye Purple n
54 John Cabot x Lykkefund n
55 John Cabot x Merveille n
56 John Cabot x Ormiston Roy n
57 John Cabot x R. Xanthina n
58 John Franklin x (Lykee Fund+Helenae hybrida) n
59 John Franklin x Merveille n
60 John Franklin x Polstjarnan n
61 John Franklin x R. xanthina n
62 John Franklin x Ristimunni n
63 L83 x 6910 y
64 L83 x Agatha y
65 L83 X Ames Climber y
66 L83 x Empress Josephine y
67 L83 x Helenae Hybrid y
68 L83 x Merveille y
69 Lillian Gibson x R. fedtschenkoana n
70 Lillian Gibson x 6910 y
71 Lillian x RDxS n
72 Lillian x RR #1 y
73 Lykkefund x Bill Reid n
74 Lykkefund x John Cabot y
75 Lykkefund x L83 Y
76 Lykkefund x Olds College n
77 Lykkefund x R. fedtschenkoana n
78 Lykkefund x RDxS y
79 Lykkefund x RR #1 n
80 Merveille x Bill Reid Y
81 Merveille x John Cabot y
82 Merveille x Olds College n
83 Merveille x Polstjarnan Y
84 Merveille x Porsliini Kaunota y
85 Merveille x R. blanda “Herttoniemi” Y
86 Merveille x R. fedtschenkoana y
87 Merveille x RdxS y
88 Merveille x RR#1 y
89 Merveille x Suzanne y
90 Morden Centennial x Francofurtana n
91 Northern Yellow x Merveille n
92 Olds College x Helenae hybrida y
93 Olds College x Lykkefund y
94 Olkkala x Olds College y
95 Polsjarnan x Lykeefund n
96 Polstjarna x Winnipeg Parks n
97 Polstjarnan x Butterball n
98 Polstjarnan x John Cabot n
99 Polstjarnan x Merveille n
100 Prairie Dawn x 6910 n
101 Prairie Joy x Merveille n
102 Prairie Peace x Nutkana n
103 R. blanda “Herttoniemi” O.P. y
104 R. carolina x (RDxS) y
105 R. carolina x Lykkefund y
106 R. fedtschenkoana O.P. y
107 R. fedtschenkoana x (Lykkefund+ Helenae hybrida) n
108 R. fedtschenkoana x Auli n
109 R. fedtschenkoana x Carefree Beauty n
110 R. fedtschenkoana x Ormiston Roy n
111 R. fedtshenckoana x Bayse Purple n
112 R. nutkana x Prairie Peace y
113 R. xanthina normalis x Tove Janssen y
114 Ristimunni x Francofurtana n
115 RR#1 x Nelly Kelly n
116 Schoeners Nutkana x Prairie Peace+Hazeldean y
117 Suzanne x Austrian Copper y
118 White Altaica x Auli n
119 White Altaica x Nelly Kelly n
120 White Altaica x Northern Yellow y
121 Winnipeg Parks x (Lykkefund+Helenae hybrida) n
122 Winnipeg Parks x Basye Purple y
123 Winnipeg Parks x L83 n
124 Winnipeg Parks x Northern Yellow n
125 Winnipeg Parks x Polstjarnan y
126 Winnipeg Parks x R. blanda “Herttoniemi” n
127 Winnipeg Parks x R. fedtschenkoana n
128 Winnipeg Parks x Tove Jansson y

Thanks for sharing , Rick. This is a valuable list.

Txs Margit,

I am pleased, and appreciate you see value in my sharing, and good to have positive implicit feed back that it is not a single user app (me) data log of a amateur’s efforts.

Now time to wax “scientific obvious” - skipping it as a read, is a democratic right.

I recognize what I documented is true for my results (seed formed), but does not predict that they can be replicated by others (e.g. RDxS crosses) as successes, or as failures (should not stop trying at least once). And that the only thing that remains is does the seed from the cross “germinate” to be able to consider it a starting success.

The list is a clip out of a section of an Excel workbook “data log/observations/results diary” I started for my 2022 hybridizing season. It will be continued through to “seedling stage”. I will probably add to it for each season, and use it as screening and data record tool, and future foundation for planning on an annual basis for the next season.

The wild bronco, rose rough rider cowboy era is ending, and now back to technical project development, planning, sort of science discipline testing and documentation - got decades of practise in those areas … and all that dusted off because of one success in “life at just below zero” testing … that finished the hybridizing-worth-it equation proof.

One tedious task this winter is to add “post facto” the poliody of the parents - to see if there really is any relationships I believe in, and therefore worth using as a guide tool - though I shower favour on random tests as necessary. This is needed as some of crosses resulting in seed, and in fails threw me for loops such a one variety total fail on all crosses. Therefore clues are demanded as to root cause why? (poliody? pollinating contamination / errors? doc errors? … impatience ? … naha on last one).

Now that l started filling in the missing science l have made an effort to remember how to spell “ploidy” … never stop learning ….

Presently tapped out HMF ploidy listings.

Anybody suggest other sources of listed rosa “ploidy”?

I know the rose compendium series l have a copy does have the odd one.

Wondering about others?

Major parents for my season tries are not available in HMF - though HMF is an excellent go to resource (e.g. lykkefund, helenae hybrida, all the Finns, a lot of CDNS, m6910, etc).

You might try sorting through topics posted under the ‘Ploidy Level’ subcategory of the new forum software.

https://forum.rosehybridizers.org/ , under the Genetics heading.

Also, clicking the ‘ploidy-level’ tag in any topic that offers it will turn up related topics, some of which may not be listed in the Ploidy subcategory.

Anybody suggest other sources of listed rosa “ploidy”?

Might as well use this reply as a test for me

Txs Don for suggestion. I will give it a test drive. Prior to change over in the forum, I found a comprehensive compiled species ploidy public domain list done by some University of Guelph workers.

Moving to stratification started early in Oct 2.

Prior to, economical hobby size plastic bags 2”and 4” wide of harvested seeds (1500 seeds +5% -25%) opened for ~2weeks to air drying) and occasionally shaken - reason? No science, just want them surface dried and separated for stratifying .

Pearlite added, to bags, and shaken to ensure separation ( no science for pearlite reason - prefer pearlite for visual acuity).

Hard water added (whats available) with turkey baster until visible. Shaken again. - any visible liquid water drained.

Seeds soaked for a couple or three days in damp bag at 66-72F.

Placed at just below 0C, and better than winter Arctic humidity levels (l think winter Arctic around 0.1 -03%).

Due to cold air sinks, bin shelving approach, and monetary preferences, two economical (read cheap) thermometers used in mini freezer/fridge as opposed to thermocouples.

Usually checked every week or so and more water added if perlite - seed bag appears desiccated. Use 1.0 ml syringe.

Plan for 5-6 months of dormancy at the slightly below zero for seeds. Then phase two to come … or where rubber meets the road. Need to balance transfer to germinating station with using station for germinating sweet peas indoors for May plant - first call on grow lights.

The crosses should be mostly hardy in my zone so grow season length not an issue with sweet pea priority - germination is the achilles heel to my program.

Seed bags closely packed upright for space in odds n sods bins. Don’t need to worry about germination in bag as transfer seeds to top of organic soul and cover with pearlite.

Using this stratification method for hardy seed parent(s) (1 at least) for zone-4 Cdn allowed breaking through a road block that was fouling me.

Expect at least 5-10% germination depending which of 64 crosses. Better comes with tweaking DTR.

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