That’s a good idea Enrique. My guess is that cyanidin and/or peonin helps express they eye in some fashion. I dont know about pelargonidin.
I have also noted that Moore’s “Halo” hybrids were often from color combinations that would have a lot of that as well.
Jadae, here is a photo of a new hulthemia that is showing the white eye that you are referring to. It seems that the white eye is dominant to the red hulthemia blotch and almost completely obscures it.
Jim Sproul
ah, neato!
Have you tried any handpainted crosses with your Hulths?
Jadae, not yet, but that’s a great idea! I did decide to try them crossed with stripes this year. I’m kind of wondering how the two traits will interact…
Jim Sproul
That would be freaky!
Actually, if the blotch came through just a little bit more and made a more distinct red dot in the middle of the white eye, that would also be quite interesting. Selecting for a rose with a large white eye, strong red blotch would be something, it would give a rose that looked more like certain kinds of wild flower.
I noticed one seedling of Heidi X PS has a tiny bloom. Looks like it may not have mossing on it, but I didn’t care about that trait when I made the cross. I made it on a whim. But… I was slightly disappointed. But it would be nowhere near to the disappointment that I may feel if it doesn’t have a halo. It’s showing poor resistance to mildew if it gets too much moister on the leaves during the evening. I’ve been careful about watering them in the mornings.
I haven’t felt so anxious for a rose to bloom… My first hulthemia seedling, really.
The Queen Elizabeth X PS seedlings have died. But I have at least two more that are germinating.
I am thinking that it may have died for certain genetic reasons.
I’ve made a few crosses of Crested Jewel X PS. Again, on a whim. That was the only thing that was ready at the moment. But, it would be very cool to create a crested hulthemia cross. But this season has been particularily difficult. Rain and wind-- Up till May!
Enrique, keep your fingers crossed!
I am beginning to think that the blotch trait (though usually behaving as a dominant trait) might sometimes be present even when it is not seen. The blotch at times can be extremely small, especially on new seedlings. In every case I have seen better blotches on mature seedlings. Also, they improve significantly in cooler weather. Mildew has been a problem on all first generation seedlings of PS to various degrees.
Jim Sproul
I moved this here from
Re: Four Petals
Posted by Philip_LA [email] on Fri, May 18, 2007
Ooooh, Jim…
How is the resistance thus far for your hulthemias?
Do you still keep updated photos posted at your site??
-Philip
Philip, when crossed with clean varieties, the hulthemias seem to “clean up” as well as any roses that I have worked with. You just have to be willing to severely cull the disease prone seedlings. When first getting repeat blooming hulthemias, however, you will want to keep all repeat bloomers no matter how disease-prone. They can be cleaned up in subsequent generations.
Yes, I am updating photos, but my website has moved (see below). I still need to put in a forward link on my old site).
Jim Sproul
Link: sproulrosesbydesign.com/
Here is a new bright colored mini hulthemia. The fresh color is quite nice, but it fades rather quickly.
It is from a cross of X {[(‘Orangeade’ X ‘Abraham Darby’) X ‘Midnight Blue’] X ‘Persian Sunset’}. The R. perscia pollen parent was I89-2.
Jim Sproul
Nice one Jim. I’ve been impressed with the fertility of the Hulthemia hybrids. The pollen is incredibly potent.
Wow, what a parentage!! Great little seedling too. I like the effect with the tips and blotch, the petal count also adds to the effect. The power of using your own seedlings as parents.
Isn’t it great to read about a new seedling and see the parentage as something other than (‘Seedling’ x ‘Seedling’)? I do congratulate Jim for his efforts. BTW, he did write an excellent article titled Record Keeping and Roses which can be found in The Next Step. He does keep some excellent records! I have said as well as written about this before, but there are so many new registrations that parentage data has not been provided. I wrote an article for The Next Step as well - Some Thoughts on Keeping and Sharing Parental Data. Jim Turner, our Webmaster also has an article about Record Keeping as well. I would encourage all hybridizers to read these articles and consider sharing data when you have the opportunity.
Thanks, I think that this will be a fun one. By the way Robert, this one gets no powdery mildew in the greenhouse, so I89-2 can clean up well when combined with a clean seed parent.
John, I agree that parentages are so important and sure give a better idea about what to expect in future offspring.
Jim Sproul
I89-2 has set hips on all seed parents I attempted.
It’s really amazing. In fairness so did ‘Persian Sunset’.
I think I89-2 is an attractive variety in it’s own right.
Seeing Robert post here made me wonder, has anyone ever crossed a Hulthemia with Rosa banksiae lutescens? I would imagine there might be some potential for disease resistance (in a warm climate) from this cross, to say nothing of an interesting flower and habit.
Admittedly, R. banksia can have some potential for mildew in a cold climate without air circulation or enough sunlight, but in general, this is about the most disease-proof rose one can have in the Gulf Coast area, and has a form which might yield interesting offspring…
No, but it’s likely we can now cross a yellow banksia hybrid with a Hulthemia hybrid both of which carry genes for disease resistance.
Things are going to get very interesting.
Hi!
Very nice and I hope you are all going lucky and strait to your mentioned aims!
I am a guy from Nuremberg, Germany, and also try to get Seedlings from Rosa persica since last year i got my first flower from that species.
This year I got my second flower and i have pollinated it this weekend with a mixture of separated pollen of four different Roses, to get a higher chance for the output.
I try now to get Hybrids from Persica herself, and not by using Tigris Pollen, and i did a setup with the aim to get healthy and fertile Hybrids, that are winterhardy enough to get throug here in Germany.
Since October 2003 i tried to raise Rosa persica from seeds i got from a guy from Tashkent, who had been my fellow student in Biology, while i studied in Berlin.
The first seedlings, then, survived from an April, 2005 germination.
The reason, why i go the way, to cross again with Rosa persica herself, is, that i want other types of roses, than the existing ones - just from the beginning of the row of Hybrids, where the genetically complex coded blot is still quite good viewable. And where, perhaps health is better.
The other thing is, for example, miniature roses are not that type of rose, the people favour here in Germany.
And also i trie to take some advantage of new infos on genetical relationships between the Roses and Rosa persica, by crossing with several wild roses and nearly wild rose hybrids.
Lets see, what happens. If something happens, i will post it and will let you know. 
By the way, i am the guy who uploaded the fotos for Rosa persica on “Helpmefind Roses”.
There you also can see the little “Mother plant”, as i pollinated it now on Sunday morning, and again in the evening.
Its a Rosa persica species seedling that germinated just last year, in 2006, and its unfortunately the only flower this year.
So far, i got about 18 plants of them, growing outside, but below a roof at the very hot south side of our house.
So their wood can ripe during summer, to cope with temperatures below -10 to -15 Degrees Celsius in the winter, so far!
The pots are isolated with damming material.
And surrounded by reed, so it looks pretty nice. …
Greetings from Germany!
Arno
I don’t work with any persica derivatives at all (too many other ideas keeping me busy), but I sure am enjoying reading (and seeing) all of this fascinating work. Keep up the good work.
Arno, it’s especially good to see that someone is going back to the species itself, to bring more F1 hybrids into being. Great stuff!
Thanks for sharing it, Tom
There are a handful of people in the U.S. that would pay dearly to get their hands on Hulthemia the species. I’m really enjoying the photos posted to HMF.
From what I understand when happy Hulthemia suckers freely but never makes much wood. It’s more or less a woody perennial where native associating freely with grasses in grazing areas.
I have a friend who budded it and kept it alive for awhile but didn’t have time to get fertility. It probably died of delayed stock/scion incompatibility.
I have no reason to believe that any new attempts to use it in hybridizing will result in anything superior to the results achieved by Harkness.
It is fascinating, but seeing what Ralph Moore went through to get his improved hybrids, I have no desire to go back to the species itself. It’s too much of a challenge, especially when people like Jim Sproul are on the brink of making some real headway with it.
It seems to me R. stellata is sort of in the same category.
It will be very challenging to get this species anywhere close to being an acceptable garden hybrid.
