I own Champlain. Its a cute shrublet here, but it even mildews here, which amazes me. I am not sure I would ever use it in breeding, but if I did, it would be with something that is mildew resistant and more fade-resistant. The shade of red it possesses is less than satisfactory 
However, it does has excellent architecture. It builds a small mound in every direction with graceful growth and tips of bloom shere and there. This is an excellent landscape quality. I cant say much for the other Canadian kordesii roses, but Ive never found them interesting. I like the German bred hardy roses better. However, I am in zone 8b, so I can afford to be a picky snob and cannot really select well for hardiness below 6b or so in guesstimation lol.
RE: Knock Out. I think it is ugly as sin. I sell a ton of these where I work (wholesale), so I get especially sick of looking at them. Home Run is definitely more aesthetic, but its plant architecture is⌠slow and funky. I will try Home Run one more year, but if I dont get anything decent by then then I am done with it.
âI own Champlain. Its a cute shrublet here, but it even mildews here, which amazes me.â
Yup, its not very good as far as Mildew goes. (Although I suppose you could say its very good at Mildew!) In my breeding greenhouse its one of the first things to mildew and its a battle all season long to control it. Iâm going to try a few preliminary experiments with some primary species hybrids this year to see if it might be useful. Ping Lim got one hybrid from it that he released and its supposedly got superior disease resistance, so who knows.
Iâm about ready to abandon âHome Runâ. I think the plant is unattractive and doesnât bloom enough. All attempts to use it in breeding have resulted in either no seed set, or seeds that rarely (or never) germinate. The few seedlings I have obtained either died very young or were miserably runty. I think I may just avoid all of the âKnockoutâ clan for breeding.
Paul
It does get mildew here also, but usually late in the season and not that bad. Actually, I am amazed that it doesnât mildew worse here than it does, as I have heard that it is a mildew magnet. But I have other roses that get mildew much worse than it does, like Henri Martin, Charles de Mils and Metis.
Champlain isnât all that hardy here, about the same as Carefree Beauty. So itâs not nearly as hardy as the other Explorers, but I thought it might have potential so thatâs why I tried a couple crosses with several hardier roses.
Last year was my first year with Home Run so it hasnât reached itâs full potential yet. I actually was thinking of using itâs pollen next year in a few crosses, but now after your comments Iâm second thoughts.
I currently have an L83 seedling that I will be using in breeding to move forward with red breeding lines. No idea yet how hardy or disease resistant it is, but a true red out of L83 is rare, I gather. See link.
Link: www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.59885.0
Oooh thatâs nice, almost looks like velvet. Your right, a red Explorer is rare.
An excellent advancement with L83, Paul. L83 imparts good cold hardiness. I think your selection should be at least cold hardy to Zone 4 (Canadian).
I was going to get rid of Champlain, even had a neighbor lined up to take it and then I saw David Z.'s seedling from it and decided that I was perhaps a bit too quick to discount it. I used it last year on Prairie Harvest and I am getting a nice crop of seedlings from it to evaluate.
Paul B., nice looking seedling from L83. I have been using Joyce Flemingâs PALS Niagara which is Red Hot x L83. PALS is a nice red, although it does not have the velvet appearance of your seedling. I really need to take a few photos of it this year and get them in HMF. I picked up Prairie Celebration last year, another L83 offspring involving Orangeade. Iâm definitely going to use it in crosses this year, just need to figure out what to put it on.
Home Run drives me a bit nuts. My first crop of HR seedlings involved using Morden Sunrise as the seed parent. I had a really nice group of seedlings to sort through. I then ended up putting HR pollen on anything and everything and ended up with a dogs breakfast. The Prairie Harvest x Home Run seedlings were really the only ones that looked promising. The cross that really drove me round the bend was Gemini x Home Run. Many of the seedlings were rootless, of those that had a root system most of them stopped growing after about the 3rd trifoliate. I did not use HR in crosses last year and Iâm not sure what I will do this year. Iâm still putting together my crossing plans.
Has anyone gotten white seedlings when using William Baffin? Several of the Hot Wonder x WB seedlings are going to be white or near white, I wasnât expecting that. This it may be an indicator that they arenât the cross they were supposed to be.
Paul,
All of my seedlings out of âWilliam Baffinâ have been colored, mostly variations on pink. Iâve not seen a white one, but that doesnât mean its not possible. The growth habit will be telling, I think.
I must post a retraction!
âIâm about ready to abandon âHome Runâ. I think the plant is unattractive and doesnât bloom enough. All attempts to use it in breeding have resulted in either no seed set, or seeds that rarely (or never) germinate. The few seedlings I have obtained either died very young or were miserably runty. I think I may just avoid all of the âKnockoutâ clan for breeding.â
I realized today I was forgetting one cross I made in 2007: âRoundelayâ X âHome Runâ which resulted in about half a dozen seedlings. Four were discarded fairly early on, but two were kept. They are now showing some real vigor and have exceptional foliage. One is a very deep velvet red and has about 12 to 15 petals, an improvement on the five petals of âHome Runâ. I didnât photograph either of these and so I donât have much memory of the bloom of the second one. Iâll post more info when I have it, plus photos, of course.
I made this cross because âRoundelayâ is an exceptionally vigorous, totally healthy Hybrid Tea in my climate. Any HT that doesnât get Blackspot when not sprayed is noteworthy. 'Roundelay is a âFloradoraâ hybrid (in fact it uses the same parents as âQueen Elizabethâ) and is a very shapely shrub that is about 4 feet tall and similar in width. It has an excellent shrub architecture, unlike so many of its class. Oh, and its a velvety deep red with a kind of muted russet undertone. The color is hard to describe.
Paul B.
Link: www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=5517
I thought you had sworn off HTâs Paul? 
UmmmmâŚits officially classed as a Grandiflora, so IUâm safe, right? Also, it was given to me years ago by Barbara Oliva who insisted that I needed this rose. I believe she was right!
Besides, I think I probably said I swear at HTâs not sworn off HTâs
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Oh, itâs a Grandiflora! What was I thinking? lol
Well, you know if Barbara recommends it, it has to be OK.
Actually as you know, weâve had this discussion before, and yes, I agree it is a good rose. Iâd actually be using it too except that I found âOleâ here locally and I have a sentimental attachment to it.
âOleâ is a marriage of two Sister seedlings from the same cross that made âRoundelayâ. It is âRoundelayâ x âEl Capitanâ which makes it half âCharlotte Armstrongâ and half âFloradoraâ. Itâs also a Grandiflora.
I noted from an article that Tom Carruth wrote in the 2008 ARS Annual that Jack Christensen was using âOleâ back in the 70âs. Apparently he thought there was something to it as well.
I have a feeling we should also probably be looking at âCarrouselâ. (another red âGrandifloraâ) Iâll bet it also has âFloradoraâ somewhere it itâs lineage. It is behind âCarefree Beautyâ and âCountry Dancerâ among others.
Link: www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=1007&tab=1
Ole Mildewed slightly here, but it has GORGEOUS blooms, color and vigor. It borders on being a grandiflora, similar to Proud Mary in many, many ways. I believe the seedling half of Queen Mary was 2 orange-red floirbundas, though. At any rate, they both have these really cool scalloped edges.