Wichuranas, what's the best way to work with them?

Hi guys, I had a quick question. I just ordered some wichurana from Ashdowns because of their sale, and because of their good health here in the Mid-Atlantic region and as a possible important breeder…I purchased:


Auguste Gervais


Compassion is about only wich/new dawn descendent in our garden; compassion sets seed readily (little pollen); seedlings are healthy, with vigorous growth like parent; no peach color has shown up yet.

Would you consider a fertile china like Arethusa for the seed parent as an intermediate step, before going to tetraploids?

I got plenty of pollen from Compassion. I have a very nice pink seedling (sometimes overlaid with peach and gold) with Sutter’s Gold as the hip parent. No fragrance.

I don’t consider it very wichurana that much.

In my garden, I grow the compact version… and Cotton Candy. I also have kordesii, but I’m not sure people could consider wichurana.

I haven’t done any work with the compact wichurana or Cotton Candy. They seem to bloom at times when nothing is available…

Lydia yes I would! I have been meaning to get an Arethusa, as it is one of the handful of chinas that do really well here but I currently don’t have it in my collection and I always kick myself for forgetting it these past three years and I think its somewhat late to plant a china if I ordered it to come in September (outside of Baltimore MD).

I DO have a Comtesse du Cayla and Mutablis, both actually setting OP hips, but I’ve heard Mutabiis is tricky to work with, though the OP hips on Comtesse looks really hopeful that it may prove to very useful when it gets much older.

Would perhaps the china-musk Trier/Mutabilis lovechild ‘Plaisanterie’ be good for such an intermediate step? I’ve grown very fond of it this year for it’s good rebloom and Mutabilis traits, but without actually being Mutabilis and Im resisting the urge to try and cross it with everything that I own (I’d really like to see it crossed with Crepuscule though). I’m really impressed by its health and vigor. I’m not sure what else would be applicable…I somewhat understand the whole concept of ploidy, so I assume most wichuranas are diploid?



If I had access to Plaisanterie, I would put it on every diploid I owned.

I like Arethusa because it has good size flowers, it produces big hips. the seeds germinate easily & offspring root easily. I’ve had op hips & offspring from Mutabilis, but they were all selfs. There are other dips in the area, but the few seeds that germinated are pretty much clones. I’ve had no takes from Mutabilis pollen on the hardier roses I’ve used. One plus is that Mutabilis op offspring root easily in water under lights. I can just imagine the potential of Plaisanterie.

My Comtesse du Cayla is still a young plant. Any hips this year would be a miracle because of all the rain. I’m hoping to use chinenses with hardier northern diploids.

Plaisanterie is at times susceptible to Powdery Mildew.

I was offered Plaisanterie but as soon as I saw the mildew I took a pass.

Mutabilis will also mildew when things are bad. Unfortunately it seems to pass this tendency on to it’s offspring.

Most of the time Mutabilis and it’s seedlings are clean. It can be discouraging when they finally show infection.

Link: www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=79691