When do you start collecting hips?

I’d assume climate probably plays the biggest part. I’m in australia, just harvest when hips are orange (or partly orange) and stick them in an envelope (dry) until I sow them beginning of autumn/fall… most prolific germinators. Climate, basically doesn’t react freezing temps much and even when it does it’s a few hours at most.

I recently moved 8hr drive south (so colder but still not really freezing) and the main difference I’ve noticed is germination stopped entirely over winter (which was not the case in previous location, just any time of year really, I was sowing polys 2 or 3 times a year because they just germinated like weeds and set seed so quickly) but has gone crazy in the last few weeks (so last weeks of winter/start of spring), they were sown outside for 6+ months (no freezes)…possibly just like warmer climates, I’m not convinced polys really benefit from stratification, they just seem like weeds.

2 Likes

RikuHelin, great thanks for the reference to this excellent literature and the note of the content of Dr. F. Svejdas’ germination method.
While searching for the book, I came across the following pdf:

2 Likes

Here is another interesting article on this subject by David C. Zlesak:

2 Likes

Txs Roseus,

l would say my favoured method is the “reverse” of Dr. F. Svejdas’ suggested generally preferred method which adds a very long warm moist step to my front end.

Her warm and moist phase is first, at 20C? (hairs stand up on the back of my neck from my limited science test failures). She must of used something to hinder or kill fungus potential - unless naturally occurring in her media because wasn’t in my pearlite

(Think Danish and Irish “1000 year old bog men and women” for probable answer path - peat moss growth - then peat generation in acidic, anaerobic conditions.

Then also old indigenous practise of wrapping a wound in moss to prevent infection. Or wet mud ??? (add cringe factor here).

And then finally there is Otzi in the frozen Italian Alps, about 5000 years old.

But l digress from my pseudo scientific discussion of tested germination approaches and Dr Svedj method for the Explorers …)

… followed by her cool phase at 2C (19th century recommendation from UK work).
Then flat them for germination at normal temperature ( another warm moist step? ).

Mine is dry first, then into bag with pearlite and excess pore water - leave at ambient for 1-3 days (14-16 C).

Then into freezer, at just slightly below 0C for what ever duration my mood of an unscientific test moment is - usually anywhere from 60 days to 120 days - temperature freezes pearlite pore water.

Then out and thawed. Trays are ready to receive frozen and thaw seeds under lights and heat mats in basement grow room.

EDIT

Forgot method key technique detail.

The bags receiving the pearlite are filled to a volume that just covers the seeds but allows agitation to mix and separate them. Water is added to a sufficient level to flood pores but not to a “quick sand consistency.

What l deem as excess is decanted after seeds have sat in it for 1-3 days. If no free excess water the small addition made by eye until l get what l want.

After below zero stratification, receiving trays are filled with moistened standard potting mix.

In the last method revision, l pick the larger seeds out of the pearlite. Pearlite’s - white coarse texture makes it easy. For small seed the small conditioning bags ( type used for saving buttons) are essentially pour out (thawed ice water still in bag but not in excess - some sublimation and take up occurred in soaking phase and freezing period).

The pouring is on to top of potting mix surface - no mixing into soil- ( very little free water to cause excess flow disturbance to soil surface flatness) - using theory seeds now should be in contact with soil ( learned from Monty’s opinion) or as close as possible - but not buried in it. Spread a very thin coating of pearlite over top of seeds - not more than 1/4” +/ -.

This is about microscopic as l get with the technique description.

Only thought l should add it after reading Stefan comment on hot seeds drying and pearlite opinion.

Then l plead to Odin, though think it should be Loki…

END OF EDIT

Usually, but not always, due to lack of scientific discipline (more applied engineering background born to cut wasted time, energy, idle talk and money) start at ambient basement temp 14C-16C and torque heat up if germinations start, to about 18-20C.

Dud results after above, recycle back to below freezing (recycle your suggestion - do not want to burden you with my decision back to -2C not 2C rogue arm chair elements out there would brand you at -2) and repeats steps until obvious season a dud for some crosses (your suggestion - many txs).

Rarely brings a bountiful harvest of seedlings … but man what a rush when it does whether they are “opies” or crosses - doesn’t matter !

1 Like

RikuHelin, thanks for your detailed report! It is always helpful to hear as many reviews as possible. I have attached a Canadian scientific study on '*Effect Of Achene Coat Scarification, Maceration And Stratification On Seed Germination In Cold Hardy Garden Roses”. Possibly you may not have seen the research yet and it could serve as a fine evening reading.

When opening the pdf you need a little patience until it is fully loaded.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Rumen-Conev/publication/259487420_Effect_of_Achene_Coat_Scarification_Maceration_and_Stratification_on_Seed_Germination_in_Cold_Hardy_Garden_Roses/links/553656870cf268fd00174228/Effect-of-Achene-Coat-Scarification-Maceration-and-Stratification-on-Seed-Germination-in-Cold-Hardy-Garden-Roses.pdf

1 Like

Previous years I waited till the first frost but last week I cut off the first colored hip from Newsflash. It is 2 months earlier. I follow nature a bit in this, when it has color, it must be ripe. I added the date so going to monitor how this goes.

Hi Roseus

The report got a bit more detail in methodology based on reading some threads - to avoid possible misconceptions

It does seem that they’re rotting somehow. Or being attacked by some tiny pest that burrows in and eats the embryo. I wonder if I should soak them in battery acid (sulfuric acid), then rinse and dry before stratification.

I’m not sure that the sulfuric acid is necessary, given the high germination rates I’ve seen without it. If you have a decent enough crop of seed, it might still be interesting to divide it and treat half of the seeds with acid to find out how the two batches differ in germination. Sulfuric acid treatment is pretty standard practice with Rubus, although I’ve personally gotten decent germination in that genus with similar methods to what I’ve used for roses.

Stefan

1 Like

Embryos are viable at around 105 days in my latitude, 42° N, maybe a few days sooner if the weather has been good all summer. Late pollinations could use a little longer to mature because the process is dependent, at a minimum, on total photosynthate which is dependent, in part, on hours and intensity of daylight.

My personal opinion on leaving them on the vine longer than that is that it invites the build-up of abscissic acid precursors in the testae which later get converted to abscissic acid by the testae and inhibit germination. These precursors are carotenoids which are part of what darkens the testae so color density of the testae gives a clue about stratification time requirements.

Scarification, chemical or physical, isn’t really necessary. I’ve never seen seeds that don’t absorb plenty of water with plenty of soaking. The bigger the seed coat the longer they need but a couple to three days is usually enough. Use cold water so there is plenty of dissolved oxygen. Warm water invites microbes and suffocates embryos.

Refrigeration is more important than desiccation with regard to seed viability. Seeds that dry out under refrigeration tend to be more viable than those that wither on the vine or the countertop.

The most important rule about germination, though, is that there are no hard and fast rules about germination because it truly is a dark art (how’s that for a disclaimer).

8 Likes

can you harvest hips after a hard frost? i had my eye on some but now we’re consistently below freezing for a week or so and didn’t get around to it.

1 Like

You absolutely can, and I have done. There’s nearly always a hip somewhere that gets missed in the first rush.

1 Like

Thank you, grabbed a bunch today.

hello,

i didn’t want to post a new topic so i’m posting this here. i was shucking some hips today i collected in september or so, and i realized, especially with the polyantha seeds, i have quite a lot more seeds than i expected.

how many seeds would it reasonable to plant in a 1020 seedling tray? i was thinking of doing rows with maybe 1/2 inch between them, but, as i have a lot of different crosses, i need room to label as well.

Hi Riku,

I too, have Dr. Svejda’s book and found it to be a valuable source of information and excellent references book. Photos are very lovely. I got it at a National-Roses-Canada convention at the Burlington botanical gardens many moons ago.



“Hi. I’m Dusty, and I may have gone way overboard.”

1 Like