What do you record for parentage of a rose whose ID is in question?

I am hoping to obtain some cuttings or a plant of Fran

Someone once told me (I -think- it may have been Mel Hulse) that they used KICA, or Known In Commerce As.

OK… so seed parent x 'Fran

Are you talking about your own personal records, or do you mean for official hybrid registration purposes? If its the latter, you have to simply do your best to record it as accurately as possible, knowing fully well that you may or may not be using the correct variety as a parent. The IRAR won’t let you register a rose’s parent as “Francis Dubreuil KICA”, they will insist that you make a decision that you have used either ‘Francis Dubreuil’ or ‘Barcelona’.

This issue has come up for me once already; I have been using ‘Mons. Tillier’ in breeding for several years, and there is some question whether the cultivar in commerce here is really ‘Mons. Tillier’ or ‘Archiduc Charles’. I have registered two hybrids with ‘Mons. Tillier’ as the pollen parent and I just went with that identification. In 100 years, if these roses still exist, and someone looks at the roses I used as parents, they might know by then which rose it really was and adjust their records of it.

Case in point: at the turn of the century the Barbier’s of France created a long line of Ramblers using R. wichurana. However, it has come into question since that time whether they really used R. wichurana or perhaps it was R. luciae. They did the best they could at the time in terms of providing correct ID of the parents, but it isn’t always obvious or easy to know.

That said, I expect what you receive will actually be ‘Barcelona’, since it seems to dominate the market. I have it here and it sure grows like a HT, so I am assuming its really ‘Barcelona’.

Lets just say that you could pick either name in this case and not be wrong. :wink:


Not for my records… I could call it ‘Charlie Brown’ for my records :slight_smile: Just wondering how you refer to roses who ID is under question in the event that you actually register something… You answer, as always, has helped a lot.

You could also add after the KICA the source. Munson the Hermocalis breeder told me to do this with some of the older daylilies because different sources had different plants under the same name. He also said it was a good idea with species. He said you could just use two initial like AA or AB to denote a source. That way if it arises later on that your plant is not true to type you can even narrow down the nursery of the plant if you needed to.