Using Therese Bugnet with triploids

These are my results using Therese Bugnet as pod parent. I did more crosses than I thought. The seeds were picked & stratified in late August & early September. There was only one hip per cross & a small number of op hips.

TB x Veilchenblau, x Williams’ Double Yellow - none

TB x John Davis - germinations started in mid April and still germinating for a total of 7.

TB x R. roxburghii normalis - 8 germinations starting in March.

TB x ((Calocarpa x op)x op)- 1 only

TB x op germinations starting in mid December for a total of 43. I noticed fuzzy stems on an early seedling so it’s likely a hybrid.

I thought my heritage was complex, it nothing compared with Therese Bugnet, with this breeding it would definately be cold tolerate down to some serious (-) degree’s.

Can anyone comment on whether or not TB has a strong influence on F1 traits in a cross with modern triploids.

I’m thinking of using some triploids on TB this season such as ‘Softee’, ‘Jeri Jennings’ and PMND-07-01 (Pink Meidiland x Rosa nitida ‘Defender’).

…or should I be using TB pollen on the triploids instead of the other way around?

Bob, be aware that ‘Jeri Jennings’ will not likely set seed.

Thanks Paul! I’ll try ‘Jerry Jennings’ on TB then and keep my fingers crossed.

Rob

I got good germination with John Davis on Therese Bugnet, but destroyed most of the seedlings because of mildew. I didn’t check for traits, but they seemed similar to each other. There’s a possibilty of selfs. I have one left which I’ll keep to see if it might be a hybrid. There was some mildew on one of my TBs which is the norm in my climate, but never anything on John Davis. I have one op seedling this season from TB which has completely different reddish new foliage. I’m thinking the pollen came either from a neighbouring John Cabot seedling, or a hybrid of Chianti. This one is very healthy & looks like it would climb. So I guess TB might also accept tetraploid pollen. I think raising op seedlings might be worthwhile.

I had a look at the seedling. It has 5 leaflets like pappa & they are definitely thicker & shinier than TB which has matte leaves with 7 to 9 leaflets. Definitely a hybrid.

Contrary to some reports, my experience and some others report that John Davis does get some mildew.

Thanks Henry. Mystery solved. But what a shame for such a fertile cross!

I am breeding for desease resistance in a climate that alternatively favor all and every roses funghal deseases

Once again I confirm that mildew suceptibility as a greenhouse grown seedling is not a sign of suceptibility as an outdoor grown plant. Same for other deseases.

This year I germinated and grew my seedlings in an old glass grenhouse and many progenies were quite mildewed. From years of experience I do never cull any for desease suceptibility.

As soon as set outside there was suncuring that is the mildew disapeared leaving redish spots. A month or two later leaves are quite healthy on strong growing low dense plants. My seedlings are field planted and not culled for three to four years as I am also looking for an outstanding healthy plant even with uninteresting flowers. And I need suceptible plants for effective desease testing.

This is not universal truth as many modern roses progenies are as hopeless as parents are here but one should never cull species hybrids with one healthy parent.