Would it be more or less smarter and more productive to focus breeding with ‘nitida’ through the straight species or should a hybrid cultivar like ‘Belle Nitida’ or ‘Dart’s Defender’ be more conducive towards helping form a good base for a breeding program?
I’m curious as to what would be better.
Thanks,
Max
Depends of your breeding goal.
My breeding goal to create well foliated, disease resistant in the Mid-Atlantic, drought tolerant rose shrubs with possible autumn color and hips ranging from a 2-5ish height and width. Generally a good landscape shrub that could either be tucked into borders or as a specimen and also be just at home in more informal layouts and also be useful for wildlife. There are a few ways to go about doing this (the gallicas and other old European tetraploids seem to be one way to go for bigger blooms and a moderate amount of health and shrubiness but I think I want to start with my diploids as they seem to be easy breeders for some of my first actual deliberate, carried out crosses.
I am smitten with the musk/china ‘Plaisanterie’ so much. It’s healthy here in the Mid-Atlantic no-spray, healthier than it’s parent ‘Mutabilis’ (for me) and much more vigorous. The only thing going against it are terrible thorns and wanting to climb as a monster. I need to tame it up a pyramid soon. I feel it has a lot of potential it just needs to be tamed. I think the shorter and compact heights of both foliolosa and I guess nitida or a nitida cultivar would help possibly squash that problem and also help integrate some native rose blood into the Mutabilis/Trier line.
The only thing is, it would probably take two generations to establish remonant shrubs if I crossed them with ‘Plaisanterie’ right? So does it make sense possibly to skip a generation with nitida and breed it with either ‘Metis’ or ‘Dart’s Defender’ or ‘Belle Nitida’?
If so, out of the three, which nitida cultivar would be the best to work with? I’m not very familiar with any of them. Has anybody used them?
In my experience, here southern France, nitida is not a good source for heat and drough resistance. Rugosa or foliolosa are better but not as good as bracteata, roxburghii, wichuraiana or sempervirens to name a few among those I tested.
Drough resistance, at least in my environment, is easily seen in root architecture: many straight diverging downward main axis on a two to three years old plant.
If you are not severely limited with growing area then why not work with all three to broaden the genetic base of your hybrids and increase the odds of obtaining useful progeny?
My breeding goal to create well foliated, disease resistant in the Mid-Atlantic, drought tolerant rose shrubs with possible autumn color and hips ranging from a 2-5ish height and width. Generally a good landscape shrub that could either be tucked into borders or as a specimen and also be just at home in more informal layouts and also be useful for wildlife.
Have you considered R. virginiana as a source of these properties? The fall foliage color is intense and the hips are like cherries. I can’t speak to drought tolerance though I suspect it is, and it definitely is quite disease resistant. It is a very low grower (but broad) so crossing it with taller varieties will give you the size you are looking for. It has the advantage of being tetraploid so it is quite cross-fertile with modern roses. The major down-side with virginiana is the profuse suckering - it is the only rose I have that sends shoots out of the holes in the bottom of its pot.
HI Max,
I have Metis but have never used it to do any deliberate crosses, mostly because it is very prone to Powdery Mildew here. I haven
Max,
I like Dart’s Defender. It has nice sized flowers, good disease resistance in my area…actually excellent, smaller stature and the repeat bloom gene. I had to leave it behind in my last move but really liked it. I did bring a hybrid of my own, Pink Meidiland x Dart’s Defender that I hope will be useful to me. This one can give you an example of what can be obtained.
Has anyone had any experience using ‘Corylus’ (R.rugosa x R. nitida)? It extremely vigorous, and has no blackspot or other signs of disease in my yard. It is even healthier than my plant of R. nitida. It is once-blooming. This is the first year I’ve grown it. I tried it both as a seed and pollen donor this year. It rejected all of the pollen I put on it, but it did set a couple of seeds with ‘Carefree Beauty’ and ‘Golden Unicorn.’
Andy
I used diploid pollen on it, from Metis & and a second generation Calocarpa op. I used these pollen parents exclusively because neither likes foreign pollen, but sets plenty of op hips. Corylus accepted the pollen quite well from both & also set a few op hips. Mine is a second year plant. Great to know it’s accepted by tetraploids.
Corylus is fully fertile both ways. In my opinion it could be more than 1/2 rugosa.
I have two seedlings I kept from Corylus, one is Corylus X R. Fedtschenkoana and has very fragrant foilage like R. Fedt. and once blooming and looks like R. Fedt. . The other is Corylus X Greenmantle and also has the greenmantle apple scented foilage. BUT it is remortant even though both parents are once blooming. From these two crosses I can say that Corylus is very malleable. Wonderful plant, stays healthy, very fragrant flowers.
Patrick
First, my understanding is that Corylus should be referred to
as ‘Hazel le Rougetel’.
Second, HlR or Corylus is remontant–to a limited extent–
it has a couple flowers on it today, 8/26/2010, as well as hips in all stages from reddish to small and green. If it were deadheaded/hips removed, perhaps it might flower better.
I haven’t hybridized it, but op hips germinate generously, and the seedlings resemble mama.
I’m in Oregon, and the plant does get some water from the fringe of the sprinkler. It has lovely light (? parsley?) green, “ferny” foliage, which sometimes gives a lovely fall foliage effect. The plant is about six feet tall, and suckers in all directions, more even than most rugosas. The OP seedlings are suckering in their two and three gallon containers. Canes are heavily thorny, but the thorns are
small and relatively inoffensive.
I would like it better if it didn’t sucker so much, and if
it had fewer thorns. If it crosses with tetraploids, ‘Basye’s Blueberry’ grows nearby/is being invaded by HlR, so
that might be a good cross either way.
Basye’s Blueberry OP has given variations in flower color,
including a sort of salmon shade, and a single white. The
seedlings have not been very vigorous, but thornless and so
far have not suckered.
Ken
So are there any R. nitida that are not rugosa crosses out their? And what would your guess be as to the other parent of Belle Nitida? It seems to have very beautiful foliage in the pictures I have seen of it. I have tried to get pollen of R. nitida in the past but I have very little interest in crossing it with rugosas and I was overall wondering how difficult it would be to cross with other type of roses?
Adam,
There is (Paulii
Sorry left out the plant name: Nyveldt’s White