Do any of you know of any rose varieties that are totally resistant to all rose diseases in all climates? Does that rose exist?
Does that rose exist?
Don’t bet your garden on it.
Peter
I don’t believe it can exist. Nature seems to use diseases to help the roses “know” when to behave appropriately for “winter”. And, to prevent any one species from becoming dominant. Just as there can’t be Humans immune to all sicknesses and diseases. Something has to keep everything in check.
Hi- I have not heard of such a rose and agree that it’s not likely to exist. Pathogens are constantly evolving- it would be highly unlikely for a rose to hold up against everything indefinitely. But I respectfully disagree with Kim that there’s anything preventing any one species from becoming dominant- that implies intelligent design which has no scientific foundation. There is no “nature” as an external, wise force- there is only change and the endless race to adapt to it. Perhaps I’m reading you too literally.
Probably, Donald. Systems evolve with balance. Something always prevents what’s supposed to exist somewhere from overtaking and eliminating everything else. “Invasive” often is an issue when things are moved out of their indigenous environments. Everything has a “predator”. Otherwise one species would overtake and crowd out everything else.
You mean like “man?”
Well, we are the only species I am aware of which completely eliminates its food source. And, we do the best job of soiling our own nest.
The following was stated: “that implies intelligent design which has no scientific foundation. There is no “nature” as an external, wise force- there is only change and the endless race to adapt to it.”
“no scientific foundation”???
This is not the place to discuss this “concept” Whether something has been scientifically proven in the past does not “prove” that it does not exist. A very recent example of the limits of our present scientific understanding of Nature:
“This proposal makes physical reality platonic in nature,” he said, referring to Plato’s argument that true reality exists independent of our senses. “However, unlike other theories of platonic idealism, our proposal can be experimentally tested and not just be argued for philosophically.”
Read more at: Physicists investigate the structure of time, with implications for quantum mechanics and philosophy
I’m sincerely sorry to have offended, and I agree that this is not a forum to discuss philosophy.
I will contend,though, that this is a place for people to exchange evidence-based information about rose-breeding, and my original post was in support of that. Nothing else.
don
It wasn’t an issue for me, Donald. I apologize if my commented sounded “philosophical”. It wasn’t intended to be.
Well, like it or not, science is underlain by philosophy. It used to be called natural philosophy. Science operates within specific rules and boundaries. I personally believe in things having physical reality. Constructivists in their most extreme approach say that all knowledge is merely constructed, that is, in our heads and in our culture. Where this matters is in elementary school education when we try to teach things like the concept of atoms, molecules, laws of physics and so on. Among chemists there were major debates over whether atoms had physical reality less than 200 years ago. It was around 1850 that people began to understand for instance that carbon atoms make a set number of bonds based on having physical dimensions. Until that was accepted we couldn’t have stereochemistry. I’m grossly abridging and abbreviating here, but you get the idea. Genes had no physical reality, Enzyme activities were believed to depend on “livingness” of the ferment (zyme) that they were en. So children are allowed to construct their own realities in some schools. That may be creative, but it needs testing against experience to be “valid” in my way of thinking. I have accepted a certain philosophical view of the world. So do we all, just that some are different from others.
But back to the first question. I think the best we can hope for is to have roses that are, when introduced, resistant to all the diseases for which they have been screened, in as many environments as are available within a free trade zone. I simply can’t comment on whether my best will hold up in Europe or Australia because I can’t afford to send them there for testing. The reciprocal is true too. Warren was lucky that he could jump that hurdle with assistance, at least one step of the way.
Disease resistance is probably the main goal of most hybridizers! If there was such a “perfect” rose, a lot of incentive for the amateur hybridizers would just fade away, and the rose would be just another flower!
Do any of you know of any rose varieties that are totally resistant to all rose diseases in all climates?
Sure. Unfortunately they seem to be completely sterile.
Most of us have a ready reserve of acclimatized disease resistant breeders at our disposal - the wild roses in our own districts. The challenge, and the fun of it, is to refine them.
Well, yes and no, Don. Californica appears to be relatively disease resistant here. Fedtschenkoana, Hugonis, Primula, Xanthina, Minutifolia and Stellata mirifca also appear to have no fungal issues, either. There are others, such as Pinetorum which are indigenous, but have some pretty yucky foliage issues. I understand from others that Arkansana is a real rust hog where it’s indigenous, as it does here. Ironically, Arkansana Peppermint never appears to suffer from rust. Arkansana Woodrow never rusted for me in the LA area where Arkansana itself and nearly every hybrid of it I grew rusted terribly. I’m sure they must have issues elsewhere, but it is interesting how even among those naturally occuring where you are, some are quite good while others really aren’t.
Kim,
Does R. pinetorum have yucky foliage in its native habitat (pine forests)? I would expect it to prefer shade and acidic soil.
‘Cahto Maid’, reportedly a hybrid of R. pisocarpa, never looked happy at the SJ Heritage, even though it grew, bloomed and fruited.
http://bulbnrose.x10.mx/Roses/Rose_Pictures/C/cahtomaid.html
It is interesting, and a bit puzzling, that two of the forms of R. arkansana you mentioned, one from Colorado the other from Saskatchewan, should be healthy in California. Where did the other one originate?
Karl
I can’t answer your first question, Karl, as I’ve never encountered Pinetorum “in the wild”. There is a suspected white form about half an hour north of me which I may be able to see the end of March when I meet friends there for a visit. I don’t know where the rusty Arkansana originated as it was the one Sequoia sold. I can report that Candy Craig (Annie Laurie McDowell) brought Peppermint to me from Colorado and Woodrow originated at, most likely, Pickering as Clair Martin purchased it from Canada to grow in the Study Plot.
FWIW, some years ago, Barbara Ertter told me that the true R. pinetorum grows at sea level near the ocean, and can be found on the Monterey peninsula. She speculated that R. pinetorum might be a hybrid of R. spithamea and/or R. gymnocarpa. She said that the similar species found inland or at higher altitudes is R. bridgesii. It seems that it is often misidentified as R. pinetorum. R. bridgesii might be a better bet for breeding for you, especially if R. pinetorum is a hybrid of R. spithamea.
Thanks, Jim. This one occurs roughly six miles from the ocean at about 250’ elevation. I find it interesting, but don’t need one more species to mess with. I’m content and more than overwhelmed with Stellata mirifica, minutifolia, Banksiea, Hugonis and Fedtschenkoana.