Today I was doing some chromosome counts and was really surprised to learn that ‘Topaz Jewel’, a cross of ‘Golden Angel’ x ‘Belle Pointevine’, is diploid! Belle is a confirmed diploid. I assumed ‘Topaz Jewel’ was triploid because I assumed ‘Golden Angel’ is tetraploid and TJ has poor fertility. Hmm. It would be interesting to confirm ‘Golden Angel’, maybe it’s a triploid??? Whatever the case, ‘Topaz Jewel’ somehow came out as diploid. In the past others mentioned wanting to chromosome double ‘Topaz Jewel’. Has someone done this? Hopefully the tetraploid version would have much better fertility and cross well with modern tetraploids, maybe in some ways like a R. x kordesii. It would sure be nice to have some more options to access yellow color in our modern roses and hopefully bring along some winter hardiness.
Hmmm, interesting. I wonder, given it’s fertility, has Buff Beauty been confirmed to be a triploid or is it just assumed to be triploid given it’s parents?
Perhaps the route in breeding would be to use diploid rugosas x Topaz Jewel, instead of tetraploid roses x TJ.
Belle Pointevine x Topaz Jewel would probably get make another diploid yellow rugosa-- perhaps more fertile, possibly.
That’s a great idea Enrique! Perhaps a white rugosa would allow the yellow color to come through more clearly in more progeny if that’s one’s goal. DeVries and colleagues used white hybrid teas in crosses to study the inheritance of yellow color from Persian Yellow because they didn’t want to make it hard to see the yellow coloration. Anthocyanins (pinks, pruples and reds) are water soluble and located in the vacuole of cells and carotenoids (golds and yellows) are fat soluble and are located within lipid membranes in another part of the petal cells. Anyway, pink rugosa parents may be great too to allow for some seedlings with apricot effects. Just like you mentioned Enrique, backcrossing to BP should hopefully produce some yellows, as it did before in TJ. I’m excited now to try putting some TJ pollen on Blanc double de Coubert or some other rugosas I have around. If people have been able to generate progeny using Grootendorst pollen on rugosas (what an almost sterile group of sports!), TJ pollen should hopefully produce some progeny too. Thanks again for the idea Enrique. This is a good direction that can be done now using TJ without generating a polyploid version.
I’ve worked with Blanc–
It is a little bit difficult, as seeds gernally don’t germinate. And the plant doesn’t like making hips.
Although, since it has a tea parent, I could easily imagine passing yellow genes via the tea parent.
Perhaps a light pink rugosa, like Frau Dagmar, Jens Munk would suit you better. If it has to be white-- perhaps Swneewerg.
I used to try to use Topaz Jewel (both ways), but I was not successful. After a few years the plant died. I assume that it was virused.
I have had much better luck with Agnes. However, Agnes is one that I applied chromosome doubling Preem to (in early springs when the buds were just developing) so maybe my plant has some tetraploid branches.
If I had the patience for such a project like a yellow toned rugosa(which I dont), I’d probably start with Rosa rugusa alba and Rabble Rouser. Golden Angel seems like a healthy rose but not as much yellow as I’d prefer to use. The issue I had with Topaz Jewel (Im so full of negative news, sorry about that) when I grew it was that I felt that it had poor vigor and grew in a very unaesthetic way that the entire wholeness of the rose was just very odd and did not meld well with everything else in the landscape which is very much unlike another Moore rugosa–Linda Campbell (good vigor, massive blooming, graceful growth, very reliable, etc).
So basically, I would start from a new angle in reguards to a yellow toned rugosa. I cant comment on the Agnes angle, though. I have yet to see it. Also, Henry’s hybrid with Rugelda seems promising.
Thanks for that information David.
I have wounded about Topaz Jewel, its fertility (or lack of) suggested that it was triploid but I wasn
Golden Glow came through my NE winter much better off than Topaz Jewel did. Topaz Jewel had nothing above soil left alive for me and GG was just nipped at the tips. GG may have had more snow cover as its in the part of my yard where it tends to drift.
Golden Glow is going to be one of my more used parents this year. I have attempted
4 pollinations on Applejack
1 cross with Lichtkonigin Lucia
1 cross with Irenes Delight (a nifty William Baffin hybrid by Mike Lowe)
1 Cross with Allgold
I wish it were a larger plant, I have lots more I would like to use it with. Nice yellow coloration. I am sure it will get larger as it is classified as a climber.
Where did you hear that Golden Glow is a triploid?
I’m interested because I got it last year, and I made a few crosses-- I didn’t get a lot of blooms (since it’s still new), but I got at least 3 Livin’ Easy crosses in.
I even attempted to make a R. moschata abysinnica x Golden Glow cross, but that didn’t take. I blame this because abysinnica is fairly young (blooms on old wood).
It may take 4 years before I can start working on this.
There are 2 Golden Glows.
1 is listed as ‘Golden Glow (Climber, Brownell, 1937)’. This is the triploid Golden Glow. I cant remember where I was told that it was a triploid but do certainly remember hearing it.
The other one is listed as Golden Glow (Hybrid Tea, Chaplin Bros., 1918)
I have the Brownell Golden Glow.
I got it after growing Orange Ruffels and Golden Angel.