thornlessness and weather.

Some of my thornless roses are making thorns. Renae, though a little rough under the leaves, is essentially thornless. But new canes are studded with red thorns.

I’ve noted two new growths of Basye’s Blueberry with thorns.

Lynnie as new terrible looking thorns, although last years branches are thornfree.

Smooth Angel and Fair Dinkum have produced thorny growths too.

I am not sure what is happening, but I think weather may have an affect with thornlessness and thorniness. San Jose has had odd really warm days and sudden chilly rainy breaks. Only 77-361, or Basye’s Legacy, has not made thorns or Purezza. Pacific Serenade looks like it maybe making new growth with thorns, but I don’t know until later.

Somebody, I don’t remember who, once told me that roses make more thorns when conditions are wet. It has certainly been wetter than normal this year.

Makes you wonder if there are any thornless genes. I remember an older ARS article by Nobbs saying that his Mission Bells, a thornless rose, became thorny once he brought it to New Zealand. Now I’m imagining that New Zealand is a bit colder. So maybe sudden climatic changes could affect thorns?

Maybe there is no such thing as a thornless gene, but modified-thorn gene that could be actived and de-activated.

Maybe the thorns helps keep in water and Lynnie is preparing itself just incase there is a drought.

Well, my normally thorny Queen Elizabeth x Basye’s Legacy seedling has intrestingly showed reduced thorniness.

This is getting intresting…


My Queen Elizabeth x 77-361 has definetly changed-- all new growth is thornless.

I am thinking that weather can affect thornlessness. Well, I will start back crossing the excellent seedling back to 77-361. Hopefully the next cross will show complete thornlessness and some repeat bloom.

I suspect that even though my seedling didn’t repeat last year, it will repeat this year now that it’s made such a beautiful shrub. It has been immune in my garden…

I will be crossing this seedling with Kim’s Lynnie, which is a whole lot better in many ways (especially in bloom size and color). Although I think the glossy foilage of my seedling is more decorative. Hopefully some seedlings of a Lynnie x (Queen Elizabeth x 77-361) will show a greater degree of thornlessness, reliable repeating bloom, and a breakdown of the rugosa-mauvey pink color.

I new seedling of Pacific Serenade x 77-361 has already bloomed. It’s exicting because this means it is most likely repeat blooming, and what is more important, the color has non of the rugosa-pink color. It is a pink with some shadings of yellow. Think Aloha, and that’s more or less the color.

I’ve felt some roughness under one leaf of 77-361…

The first time ever. Today…

It makes me wonder if 77-361 will get thorns just like Lynnie and my seedling.

My Pacific Serenade X 77-361 seedling has amazing disease resistance, with sort of velty foilage. I know this directly comes from its abysinnica ancestor.

It’s thornless, but very rough under the leaves.

It makes me sight quite a bit…

For information, Ken Nobbs was living and working in the north of New Zealand, i.e. USDA zone 10.