Taking cuttings from early shoots?

I just watched a video from the Fraser Valley Rose Farm channel where he demonstrates rooting cuttings from early soft shoots.

It seems interesting to me especially for how fast he says you would know if it worked or failed.

On the other hand, I’ve always heard ot was better to take cuttings from where the rose had just bloomed, or else floriferousness could be decreased in the clone (but is that even actually true?).

Curious to know if anyone has any experience or thoughts on taking cuttings from early shoots?

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Roses sport frequently. Most often, the sports are degenerative. Of course you CAN propagate from pretty much any piece of the plant, selecting a stem from which a perfect flower has just faded allows you the knowledge you are propagating from material which will produce the exact flower you want it to deliver.

There is a wonderful old rose book, A Rose Odyssey, written by Dr. J. H. Nicolas, who was, for some years, the breeder for Jackson and Perkins. In it, he recounted …

A Rose Odyssey

Book (1937) Page(s) 14.

Several years ago there was a discussion in American Rose Society circles about the genuineness of the American stock of General Jacqueminot. I studied the question abroad and found at Reymond’s a line of magnificent everblooming General Jacqueminot, descendants of the original stock he had inherited from his Uncle Roussel, the originator. These had been improved almost to the status of a Hybrid Tea (sic) in floriferousness. We acquired enough plants from Reymond to rejuvenate our stock and the General Jacqueminot stock of Jackson and Perkins is of authentic French origin.

The rest of the section discussed how the HPs had been nearly destroyed through injudicious bud selection. The plants ran rampant and were shy flowering. The “improvement” in the variety was due to judicious bud selection.

Back in the very early 2000’s, I imported Eureka from Britain. The next year, it was marketed in the US through Week’s Roses. The British Eureka grew strongly while the Week’s plant was soft and “floppy”. I asked Tom Carruth about it at a rose event and his suggestion was that Week’s had produced the plants from soft, new growth, resulting in soft, floppy plants. Anecdotal, of course.

Mistakes in production occur all the time. “Ragged Robin” was the widely used stock in the US until about WWII when someone went to the fields to cut the next year’s root stocks and found vigorous shoots they found desirable for harvesting. The resulting plants grew exceptionally well in comparison to prior crops. Dr. Huey was found to make a superior stock for commercial production in the US fields and an accident resulted in the discovery.

When bud wood is harvested, the task is often given to lower cost employees who likely don’t have expert knowledge of the plants, but can follow directions to find the plants in the fields and cut the required number of buds. When you are given the task to bring in large quantities of buds from a variety, when you encounter long, strong growing canes, the natural inclination is to concentrate on those to shorten the time required to accomplish the job. You’d be surprised how often either root stock suckers or climbing mutations are harvested as the bush form of the requested variety.

So, there is, at least, anecdotal evidence that bud or cutting selection can influence the produced plant. At least by selecting wood from which the exact flower you desire has just fallen, you probably stand the best chance of obtaining a plant of it.

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Thanks so much, @Roseseek !

I guess that anecdote you gave from Tom Carruth would argue against using these soft new shoots. I don’t really want to end up with floppier versions of my seedlings! :sweat_smile:

I’ll stick to my hardwoods and semi-hardwoods then. They take longer, but when they do strike, at least they’re solid.

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That’s interesting. Reminds me of something I just read on HMF about the Peace rose:

Instead of the horror of war, people had so longed for peace and such a rose and beauty again, that almost every single front garden very quickly had its ‘Peace’ rose. Most unfortunately its good health and vigour seem to have deteriorated and while you may think your ‘Peace’ rose is quite respectable, it is nothing like those early massive bushes it used to be. I believe it may have been a result of taking budwood from any twig on the bush and not selecting the strongest bud to be propagated.

Source

Seems like there’s something to be said about being more selective with propagations, although given its unrivaled popularity Peace is likely the most extreme example.

More to the topic at hand, I find myself wondering if propping a cane which has just bloomed might be more difficult due to having used up so much sugar and sap to make the flower. I’ve read that even keeping too many leaves on for a while after taking a cutting can reduce the available sap needed to callus and root.

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Actually, reportedly, the recently fallen flower stem has the resources necessary to root more easily. It’s not “hardwood”, nor is it “softwood”, but “just right”. It’s the wood I’ve always been advised to select for budding as well as rooting. And, yes, there is a lot to be said for being selective in propagation.

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I see. In hindsight, I probably should have taken the information from a book published in 1922 with a grain of salt.

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Not necessarily. There is a wealth of very good advice and information in old rose books. Unfortunately, just as today, there is also a LOT of plagiarized “caca”.

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