Unfortunately it would kill some of their hardiness but I think if one used the musk/china ‘Plaisanterie’ in their breeding, you could get some really nice strubs as it, at least even as a young plant, mine only two years old (if that) has already shown signs of somewhat free-flowering nature.
'Dana
Danae was okay. I raised a lot of Danae x Pretty lady seedlings. They all lacked vigor but had wonderful color. One of them was yellow and had a lot of chlorophyll. I got a few seedlings from Danae x Leonie Lamesch, but none of them had yellow in them. I am currently germinating some OP seedlings of Bloomfield Dainty. It is from Danae, but is bolt upright instead of horizontal like Danae. It seems to have minor blackspot instead of Danae’s minor mildew, lol. I think the whole thing may be wasted effort, but it is interesting nonetheless. There is something about the wild looking primrose tones that I love. Maybe it is a mid-western thing?
Peter,
Your comment asking for the development of a yellow Hybrid Musk got me thinking that I should try this strategy for one that would be cold hardy to Zone 3 - (‘Schneezwerg’ x Rosa multifora) x 'Hazeldean. I’m surprised there hasn’t been more work hybridizing Rosa rugosa x R. multiflora. It seems me if this was done there should be potential to develop more floriferous Rugosas. Of course, incorporating Rosa multiflora with R. rugosa will also likely lessen the disease resistance of the latter. But that is true when Rosa rugosa is diluted with most species (or cultivars).
Please don’t quibble that the above wouldn’t be a true Hybrid Musk because it doesn’t have Rosa moschata in the pedigree. What is important is to have a rose similar in appearance to the Hybrid Musk cultivars that show the influence of Rosa multiflora in the display of the flowers.
Yes, for those who are thinking about it, I know ‘Geschwind’s Orden’ (Rosa rugosa x R. multiflora). However, from what I’ve seen of it and photos displayed on HMF I question that parentage.
Hi Paul,
I would strongly agree with your suggestion to combine multiflora and rugosa. I have one such hybrid. I had found a double-flowered variant of multiflora many years back and used it as seed parent with rugosa pollen. The resulting hybrid is undeniably a rugosa hybrid. It is pink, double-flowered, fragrant and blooms again in the fall. It certainly has some flaws: crowded flower clusters, flowers have a strong tendency to “ball”, gawky growth habit, relatively infertility. But in spite of the flaws, I think it is one of the most promising species hybrids I’ve raised. Incidentally, it hasn’t had any disease issues whatsoever here in Maryland.
It has never set even one hip, but I tested its pollen last season on one flower of ‘Joycie’ and it set a few seeds so there’s hope for this one still.
By the way, I looked at the photos of ‘Geschwind’s Orden’ on HelpMeFind and it looks very different from my hybrid.
Tom
Tom,
“By the way, I looked at the photos of 'Geschwind’s Orden on HelpMeFind and it looks very different from my hybrid.”
Yes, I expect it would because at least some (all?) of the material sold as this cultivar is not what I would expect in appearance of a Rosa rugosa x R. multiflora hybrid.
Thanks for your input.
In the book, ‘Climbing Roses of the World’, Charles Quest-Ritson mentions a rose called ‘Iwara’, “a natural hybrid between R. multiflora and R. rugosa which grows on the shores of Hokkaido and northern Honshu.”
…on yellow hybrid musks… I believe R. hulthemia genes will eventually make for some decent yellow hybrid musks. (At least that’s where I’m going to try and take it.)
Populations of Rosa rugosa x R. multiflora have also been reported to have been established in Germany. However, I haven’t seen any concrete evidence of this.
I love Pemberton’s “Penelope”, but i have doubts about its use on breeding. I’ve been searching information in this forum, but I haven’t found anything about its fertility. It sets lots of hips and seeds. I’ve been trying to germinate OP Penelope seeds and I get 0 germinations. What do you Know about Penelope’s fertility?
Yours
Josep
. What do you Know about Penelope’s fertility?
I have a couple of OP seedlings of Penelope. One of the seedlings is pretty vigorous, the other may not make it but the seeds were fairly immature. These were germinated by embryo culture so I can’t address your lack of germination but Penelope does give seeds that have viable embryos in them.
Ive always wanted to use Golden Cheronese with Sunshine. I gave up on Rosa primula. I believe it behaves too much like R . roxburghii in breeding (and not like the other persian briars). I would love to see something like [Sunshine x (Rosa rugosa alba x Golden Cheronese)].
Oh, Ghislaine de F
I made a ‘Schneezwerg’ x ‘Rosa multifora nana’ cross about 6 years ago, I had high hopes for the cross but most of the seedlings died shortly after germination. The two that did survive were week spindly little runts that suffered badly with die-back and refused to flower. I finally put them on the compost heap this season. Other crosses between Schneezwerg and multiflora derivatives have not even made it that far, so I’d suggest avoiding ‘Schneezwerg’/multifora crosses.
I think ‘Hazeldean’ x (Rosa rugosa x Rosa multifora) is well worth perusing. I’ve actually wanted to try ‘Hazeldean’ X Rugosa since I heard that ‘Hazeldean’ was triploid but unfortunately I cant get it here in the UK.
Incidentally, I did cross Rosa rugosa alba x Golden Cheronese last season. Germination wasn’t great but I do have two seedlings that are looking OK so far. As you’d probably expect, I’m hoping for some yellow in these seedlings and would like to cross them back to rugosa. I’ll report back and post pictures when/if they flower.
Jade, assuming that the Rosa rugosa alba x Golden Cheronese seedlings produce viable pollen I could try sending you some so you can attempt your cross.
Jimks
PS
I apparently cant differenciate between M’s and N’s this morning.
The name should reed Jinks
Hey Jinks,
I have one seedling from rugosa X ‘Hazeldean’ that bloomed for the first time last season. I also repeated the cross but haven’t stratified the seeds yet. I posted May 2009 about that seedling and will put the link to the thread below.
I also have rugosa X xanthina from about ten years ago. It is light-yellow flowered. It has never made any hips but does produce some pollen, which was effective at setting seeds in a backcross to rugosa. Sadly I didn’t take very good care of the seeds and never got any germinations, but I think this route still has merit.
Tom
Link: www.rosehybridizers.org/forum/message.php?topid=21183#21183
Hi Tom,
I’d love to see the photo of your seedling just out of interest. I’ll keep trying to get hold of ‘Hazeldean’ and you can be sure I’ll make the cross if can.
I think I remember your rugosa X xanthina cross. I had wondered how you’d progressed with that it and it’s encouraging to know you got seed from the backcross. Hope I have similar luck with the Rosa rugosa alba x Golden Cheronese seedlings.
Do you still have your web page with your crosses on it? I did have it saved in my favourites but lost it a few years a ago in a system crash.
Hi Jinks,
I don’t currently have a web page anymore, although I’ve started toying around with the idea of just having a simple blog to serve as one.
I still have rugosa X xanthina and haven’t given up hope on moving it forward (generations-wise). I also just bought another xanthina to replace the one I used to have. I really like that species and want to use it in combination with some other roses.
I’ll try to e-mail you (off-forum) some pictures of the rugosa X ‘Hazeldean’ from last year.
Thanks for your interest, Tom
Hybrid musk pics?
Carefree Delight x R. multiflora top (just beginning to bloom), third year & in shade. Prosperity bottom.
Prosperity seedling, second year.
Carefree Delight seedling, second year.