I thought we were talking about selfed seedlings of ‘Oklahoma’. Early on I sowed open pollinated seeds of several deep reds. All mildewed badly.
Yes, the challenge with fragrance is to breed for good health. It can be done.
I have some Oklahoma seeds planted now. Only one has grown so far.
I really do like mauve color with really dark red almost black tints being my second. Robert I know what you mean when you say that their are far better pinks. I want to hang one of these flowers on a much better plant. But if every rose was a easy to grow as Queen Elizabeth or New Zealand we would not need rose breeder.
Robert
The 3 bare roots in the one hole idea: Would this work in a pot?
I am interested in this as it may be a way to increase the seed set on a new F1 plant so it can be tested earlier in sufficient numbers to have meaning without having to grow multiple plants to compensate for low bloom production.
Would the multiple plants create more growth in general or would the “competition” between plants cause more small twiggy growth?
If the growth is “restricted”, would that be good or bad for a “breeding” plant, as some think low twiggy growth is good for seed set?
I use Sterling Silver and have 1 cutting grown plant in a pot, It is fairly small @ 2yrs with mostly twiggy growth but is now starting to put out stronger canes. This year I have had about 20 polinations but would like to be able to acheive 100/yr as quickly as possible.
The idea of increasing the bloom production of a new plant in its first season has great merit to save both time and space and thus increase the progress and satisfaction we all get from breeding
Russ
Hi Russ, sure, it would work in a pot. It’s common to use more than one rose in a planting hole. This is especially useful when working with lower grade budded roses that only have one or two canes. By directing the canes away from the center you can create what is in essence one really nice plant from the start. I’ve been known to wrap or bind the shanks together using something that will expand or biodegrade over time.
I noted some time in ago in Austin’s catalog that it was suggested to plant 3 or 5 roses in close proximity for maximum effect.
It works with own-root roses too. Some cultivars don’t produce many branches or basals. Planting multiples helps them look fuller faster.
That’s how many mini producers create such full, lush plants in such small pots so quickly. I often selected own root plants at Sequoia for how many individual plants were in the pot instead of how developed the plant was. It was great fun to buy one, get home and have three or four! I wouldn’t do it with something like Queen Elizabeth, but for weaker or spindly growing things, absolutely. That’s why Austin suggested multiple plants of some varieties. They didn’t develop into good enough plants using only one, so he could sell weaker growers in larger numbers. It’s pretty much the old shampoo example. In order to increase sales, the instructions on the label were changed to “lather, rinse, repeat” instead of just lather and rinse. Sales doubled over night.
When Nor’east had their going out of business sell, they sent some plugs that had 7-10 cuttings in them. Perhaps the more important ones I bothered separating but there were a few that I didn’t.
Great suggestion Robert I will have to try this multiple rose in one pot. It could save me some space if it works. Plus it might help with the heat around here. Many times the plants are watered fine but it is so hot and add in the dry air plants are wilted at the end of the day. I am thinking that the plants foliage could keep the relative humidity around them higher than the surrounding air. We will see how this works.
As one might expect, planting multiples in a container increases root volume quickly. Plants tend to get root bound faster and require more frequent irrigation. Plants also don’t develop as fully as they might otherwise. It’s a useful technique as long as one realizes limitations.
For breeders it can offer advantages.
I like ‘Stainless Steel’, still. It has great fragrance, nice foliage, doesn’t get mildew here and is good as both pollen and seed parent (it does get blackspot).
Jim Sproul
My issue with Stainless Steel is that it gets extremely tall canes with one or three huge blooms up top. So, it is very top heavy with just some large leaves in between the ground and the blooms. Also, it does get BS.
Lagerfeld is my favorite of the pale mauves so far. It is also top heavy, but it doesnt get bs here, and it blooms non-stop.
Neptune is near-perfect but it is a blend. It isn’t a pure mauve. Also, it gets bs and the blooms collect rain water like nothing else here. They rot.
Sweetness is good as well except for one major flaw. It has jack and crap for vigor. Everything else is good.
I still think that the race is still on for a good true-mauve.
If I were to try to create one, I would start by using Over the Moon.
I think I just had an idea…the Dottie Louise X Fedtschenkoana hybrids are quite fertile. Self seedlings from them germinate like grass seed here. What we need to do is pick up Sterling Silver, probably as seed parent and hit it with a mix of all of the DLFED seedlings until one produces the right combination of silvery blue foliage with the desired flower purity. Two things these seedlings do NOT lack are fertility and vigor!
Sterling Silver, probably as seed parent
Would you expect Carlin’s Rhythm to work too?
Carlin’s Rhythm would probably work, but that would give a double does of Basye’s Legacy, which may or may not be a good thing. I don’t think CR would yield as strong a lavender flower color as Sterling Silver and I love the blue green foliage with a “bloom” on it like the bloom on a grape. There’s also that incredible fragrance which I’d hope to pick up. Either one should provide intensified fertility. One thing about Legacy offspring…they tend to shed pollen early and produce more self seedlings than I prefer, so I use them more for pollen than seed.
There’s also that incredible fragrance which I’d hope to pick up.
Nothing else like it, one of those things you need to experience to believe.
Have you considered crossing Lavender Pinocchio into DLFED? I’ve got a plant coming with the idea of using it with Carlin’s Rhythm OP and Quatre Saison.
I love Lavender Pinocchio. I have it. The time for Lavender Pinocchio to contibute anything worthwhile passed about half a century ago, unfortunately. IMHO, it’s a museum piece at best. I DO love it. I continue to grow it because I love it, but I don’t want any of its bad characteristics in my babies. Weak, thin, wimpy plants. There’s enough out there to contribute that.
I’m more inclined to cross Memorial Day into the DLFEDs to recreate something resembling Autumn Damask, or pick up some of the fun things from roses like Pride of Oakland (Pinocchio X China Doll, now, there’s a fun cross!); or Glad Tidings (extremely clean and productive here with intense color); Goldmarie (bring yellow with good plant - here); minis to control the plant and intensify bloom, things like that. I put them on Purpurea to see what may come from that, but I don’t think any of the seedlings made it out of the terminal mildew attack going on here. Hot, dry days with cool damp nights. Awful!
It always amazes me how much several of you know. How bout Blue Girl the one that is most commonly available?
I got one nice brown looking seedling from Angel Face so far. It is clearly slightly weak compared to other seedlings. All the rest of the Angel Face seedlings are extremely weak growing with the exception of one seedling which is a cross with an unknown old rose that will most likely not bloom this year. I was expecting the weak seedlings however because Paul pointed this out saying Ralph Moore had the same problem.
‘Angel Face’ is a favorite of mine and does very well in my area but it produces weak offspring as seed parent.
It’s better for pollen.
I’m trying to avoid it altogether in favor of mauves with better health.
Anyone have any experience with ‘Rhapsody in Blue’? I plan on crossing it with a mauve Carefree Beauty seedling.
Has anyone used the Silver Star (Kordes 1966 variety) for making lavender-mauve crosses ? It is quite vigorous, does get BS (not much here), but has never had other problems for me, and sets seed well, and has fertile pollen. I have a few that have germinated this year, and had a few seedlings bloom last year-but haven’t used it much. Maybe this year I’ll stop picking the flowers and try it with more seed parents. It is large, quite blue, but it does have a very mauve reverse, and has good fragrance. The couple of seedlings I had last year were all a silvery-pink to a silvery white and very large and fragrant.
Jackie