Spinosissima hybrid

sorry for the late reply, just found this again!
If I recall correctly (which might be questionable, and he can correct me)
I received Red Dawn x Suzanne from Dr. Z, when he was shipping me one of his seedlings.
Does anyone know if it roots readily, or is a disagreeable spin? I’d be willing to send cuttings.

Also, is there anyone interested in the Spins that are being offered freely for a new home, but you can’t go get them? It is here in Washington, and I’m planning on going there in early or mid March to dig some up before they come out of dormancy.
He said that I can dig full plants, or many have suckers that I could just dig.
If I dig extra suckers is there anyone would be interested in having me ship some?
Hopefully if they are still dormant they would be okay to ship just a small section?
I don’t have a list of what is available, so I’d have to see when I get there what the options are.
I know very little of spins, other than working with pollen from Harrisons yellow grown locally ( I suspect might be Williams Double Yellow).
Does anyone have any recommendations as to which spin hybrids would prove useful for breeding?

My RDxS cuttings take is about 20-30%. Great thing is they were planted outside when less than a year old and had no problem with winter. They take awhile to start blooming.

I‘ve had one success pollinating as seed parent Skinner’s Butterball to germination (below zero).

The ones l list all produce abundant big seed laden hips and are in my garden. But “biggies” is operative word. I give pimps and spino cases as he carried both.

Ask about Knud Pedersen’s repeating pimps. They are prizes in my book - small and tidy so far. HMF has a list.

Erskine’s (of the Big 5), Prairie Peace created a stir in Europe so l am told, should probably see if he will save you one. In my books one of the beauties for bloom and color. Again a “biggy” but with the bloom color all the better.

I also like his single Madeline’s Choice … pale apricot / pink blend … also a biggy.

Ross Ramblers - there a number of them 1,2,4 etc the fully double slays using no techno jargon. A beaut fully double white is the one l have. Either 1 or 4. Not usually listed as spino but ask if he has one. Some say laxa etc. again a biggy.

Suzanne if you got an acreage. Or willing to aggressively prune - l do for all my spinos after 5-7 years. It seems to show up in crossings including my favourite spino hybrid (RDXS) you are cloning. So it canbe crossed.

Good idea to get this Suzanne hybrid rose around the States so talent can try and get its shrub rose quality with hardiness into more roses. I understand, a major Canadian nursery has ceased sending to States after years because too many bureaucratic delays and paper work issues of late. Like Pickering ‘s complaints - as on its last legs. But as per hint by Dr Z and my own experience not an amiable seed parent - see my RD x S crossing table cut l gave you in this thread.

Dr. F L Skinner by Simonet is yet another biggy and the only one l have, beside Anja, that has a bloom mimic of a HT (Joanna Hill × Altaica) . Apparently breeder had no success with carrying on to F2’s. See HMF references. I have challenges with it coming out of winter and thrips like the blooms. A local “Zoo” one is somewhere between 10-12 feet high. However it shows crossing modern with altaica can work.

As l mentioned if he has “Knud Pedersen’s” repeating pimpinefolia / spino examples and if l was an American - SO is - I would speed burn a trail to his place. He will know them. I have a couple and they stay small for me and bloom well e.g. Peter Boyd, Blushing Love etc…

Mon Amie Claire (sic?) is a good one by a Belgium. Small, tidy, and non-stop bloomer in my garden.

Again, another generalization my spinos are hip / seed mad for O.P.s but have not spent enough time trying for more crosses - just a time thing. Ones done this year in stratification at below zero. BTW it is observing spinos seedlings and winter behaviour that re-enforced for me to go just below zero in stratification

Single large white bloom to left centre in Ross Rambler #1 is white R. altaica. A favourite for breeding tries due clean white, large single bloom - still waiting for germination success. Some lump R. altaica under spinos … I do.

Margit might suggest looking for types in his garden.

I hope these pictures down load - not into 5 edits plus - buff photo is a Kordes spino cross Anja that’s actually hardy so far. Beg for that one if there as bloom form and color should be useful if it crosses.

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Hi Duane
Following is a list of spins Leonard Heller imported from overseas and are not available in North America either in private gardens or from nurseries according to HMF. You may wish to rescue some of them when you go to dig suckers in March. Please rescue ‘Red Dawn’ if it is still there. We’ve pretty well lost it in Canada.
List: Xanthiina ‘Allard’, ‘Caerulea’, ‘El Ariana’ , ‘Else’, '‘Fenja’, ‘Katrin Wood’, ‘King of Scots’, ‘Marzipan’, '‘Paimionruusu’, ‘Petite Ecossaise’, ‘Ristinummi’, 'R. Pimp chlorocarpa, R. Pimp plena, ‘Ruskela’, ‘Ruuhijrvi’, and ‘Totenvik’. ‘El Ariana’ is one I would love to have. Both ‘Prairie Peace’ and ‘Madeleine’s Choice’ have been useful parents for another amateur breeder here in Alberta.

BTW ‘Harison’s Yellow’ has prickly receptors which distinguishes it from the other yellow spins.

If Leonard still has ‘Paula Vapelle’, that’s another one that should really also be rescued. I badly wanted to grow it before, but in my climate/terroir, most near-species spins are clearly not reliable garden subjects and I would not want to be racked with guilt over losing an especially rare cultivar.

You’re also very lucky to possess a ‘Red Dawn’ x ‘Suzanne’, which is a deeply underappreciated rose that would probably adapt to a wide range of climates. That (along with many of these) should really be offered to nurseries so that they can become better distributed and sustained in cultivation.


Ok Stefan looking over 49 latitude l know ur going to be relieved. Grow Paula Vapelle (2021).

Margit your welcome to cuttings from ‘Else’, and 'Ristinummi. Think they will be tough to propagate.

El Ariana nobody wanted to adopt. Too tender and consumed by spino circle where l trans-planted three of them to make way for Isabelle Skinner. Remind me next season to check on a rose in the spino circle that l noticed was unlabelled , young growth no bloom and therefore not old. It might be one of the three.

Ruskela and Marizpan didn’t survive first summer, 1st in poor received shape and Marizpan gave up the ghost by September - suspect rodents as never seen a rose go from healthy and blooming to dead so fast. Though Marizpan blooms were small and well developed and pleasing to eye - strange pink remember thinking.

I am very happy to hear that, Riku! What do you think of it so far? It sounds like it takes a while to start repeating.

Of course, Canadian nurseries that still do cross-border business with the U.S. are nearly extinct, so it seems more and more like we will need to preserve any cultivars we already have if we want them to continue to remain accessible to rose growers and breeders here. New varieties introduced by larger rose breeding firms in Europe seem to have a reliable pipeline for introduction, but older roses not already in commerce here are nearly impossible to obtain without extraordinary measures being taken.


It young, and not noticed a repeat. I will give it time as a pleasant tidy bush at the moment. Cant say l noticed any pink at all but it and another Ivan Louette creation both in full day sun. It has larger bloom than MAC.

However as mention Louette’s other example “Moni Ami Claire” has been a star from the get go in my garden and blooms profusely. Again a pleasant small tidy bush. Its flowers are smaller than PV. Nice dedication to Claire Laberge of Montreal Botanical Gardens.

Be interested to see if they stay “small” in my garden after 3-5 years. If they do, they are in the perfect locations for aesthetics.

Hi Stefan,

Was trawling through the “new Cornhill nursery” site and saw this change of heart notice

Orders for pick up or the USA can be arranged by giving us a (tel:+15067563635) or sending us an email. osborne@cornhillnursery.com.

Might be an opportunity to see if they now carry RD x S.

Site is very different from old and l think its a work in progress - “eg Canadian Heritage” roses not listed.

I got my heritage order this spring by emailing and inquiring if they had ones on my list - had most but l was prepared to fully accept suckers for rare ones at a non sucker price ( least l don’t define myself as one :rofl: )

Thanks, Riku–I appreciate the hot tip! I had no idea that there would be such a sudden shift. It would be wonderful if they did have RDxS to sell, since there don’t seem to be any U.S. nurseries carrying it. There are a few other roses that I wouldn’t mind picking up even if they don’t (plus one or two that didn’t make it from my last order).