Shucking Hips - Easier methods for large Quantities?

[RikuHelin]

What type of shucking method do you find works best? - especially for shucking large quantities of hips by the amateur.

Due to kind generosity of a friend l received hips from about 30 varieties to save my germination season this winter and spring (hail storm). Plus if l get lucky get more types of heritage and species plants

Never recall any conversation on the topic of shucking for seeds except l think blenders to speed up the harvesting process. Decided against the Magic Bullet.

My old too careful and meticulous method would have not been efficient - would of grown cobwebs before hit end - or more darker endings.

After a score of hips deseeded, l noticed most of large junk from non-desiccated hips (soft) was mostly dried out sepals. Tore them off with a twist and noticed seed poking out.

Rest is history for me as the below “Pushing the Pimple” works faster for me.

I found squeezing from sides of hip and downward splits the sepal-hip side area and seeds eject as you work around sides and from top - 39 sec vid shows it but loading an issue.

Have doubts this is new - but took a long time to find it by self learning.

But it cut time by over half and finikeying around - latex gloves keep fingers clean.

Cant load an iPhone vid, so snap shots.

Sepals removed. Labelled H. Skinners Arkansana plant hips. Addendum could be Bugnet Julia.

[roseseek]

Get an electric blender, fill the jar half full of the same variety of hip (less if Rugosa as they thicken as they pulse), if desired, sprinkle in some cleanser with bleach to clean any contaminants or fungi from the mess then liquefy until it appears all the pulp is broken down. Pour batches of the yuck into a standard wire strainer then rinse well under running water until all of the non seed material flushes through. Yes, you may break open some of the seeds but my feeling is those were likely those not containing an embryo. Once well rinsed, you can spread them out on toweling to dry or dump them into whatever media you wish to use to hold them for germination. If there is still too much pulp material in the yuck, dump it back into the blender to spend more time being cleaned. I’ve used that method for large batches of the same either OP hips of a variety or too many of the same cross to comfortably hand shell them.

[RikuHelin]

Going to give it try as good step by step described methodology … thanks.

[roseseek]

You’re welcome, I hope it helps!

[sjjones]

Joe Winchell only processed his hips this way, works for me as well. Steve

[Shane]

Blender is the way to go. Never had damaged seeds. No need to wash out the pulp; simply strain out as much water as you can and either plant the seed-filled goop in the fall (if you live in a cool or cold climate) or store it in a plastic bag in the fridge for about 3 months.

Word of advice: don’t strain the blender water into a sink with a garbage disposal. Inevitably some seeds will get through and jam it. Had to replace mine!

[RikuHelin]

Tried and in comparison to hand shucking against using measures of “ease of use, efficiency (manual effort level), speed, cleanliness and degree of agro”, …

… a clear winner for shucking large numbers of hips.

This was my first try. And using mining processing engineering words - have to, comes naturally.

Poured hips (dry) into grinder, only 30% of beaker volume, as it was all l had - Prairie Peace and Lac la Nonne.

1. Added water to make up to 40% of grinder cup volume - don’t have to go higher as water fills hip void air space.

2. 1st grind time of the 30 to 40 large mixed hips of a spino and a rugosa hybrids was for 1.5 mins…

3. Stacked two different opening size screens - coarse opening (grizzly) on top (kitchen colanders) and over sink.

4. Poured grinder cup contents over top coarse screen.

5. Sprayed coarse screen retains (seeds and reject) and also wet sprayed fine screened retains from coarse screen passing material - majority of seed capture in secondary. Kept screen stack together when spraying top coarse grizzly screen.

6. Collected both sized retains and combined and placed back into grinder cup.

7. Recycle grind of both retains (oversize) for another 1.5 mins. Produced nice smooth pulp.

8. Repeated step 5 - water spraying of pulp on coarse screen.

9. Waste and screen wash water to sewer from due spraying of screens.

10. Hand pick out chunkiest junk off grizzly, and secondary screen

This is my first time and in film - seed recovery probably ~>90%.

Will increase grind time for first step until see pulp to see if can skip second grind - likely will still want to regrind.

After total 1.5 mins in second grinding, after recycle of first screens’ retains produced a nice pulp on coarse screen. Not on first 1.5 min grind.

Water added to flush pulp through screens, using a kitchen sprayer on coarse screen pulp - passed easily through both screening sizes. Fine screen still below coarse screen.

Photos show results for 1st and 2nd grinding passes, and screen retains … done in kitchen sink where sprayer handy. Used non garburator side.

Total new cost about 70$ (all new- forbidden to use existing blender and collander).

3 mins grinding in total, 3 mins spraying retains - call it lucky 7 mins…

Wow! nice leap forward. Don’t see any increase in time if l charge grinder to half full. 40 hips would taken more than 30 mins. by hand.

Drying now … repeat, what a breeze. Will be fine tuning my interpretation of “ how to”.

Big Thanks Kim, Steve and Shane!!!

[Roseus]

RikuHelin, thank you very much for the efforts of sharing this detailed documentation!

[RikuHelin]

Hi Roseus,

Sad technical news, closer examination of seed after drying is showing quite a bit of seed damage at 40-60%.

That suggests a variable speed grinder/blender preferred over a high constant speed blender that uses a small cup … (like a coffee bean / spice grinder).

Hence new price goes up.

I used a constant speed, Magic Bullet (economical and they come with small cup containers).

I think a mitigator is to limit to one not two grinds of 1.5 minutes each.

I’ll try adding more water to try and bias to removing soft hip skin and tissue and only one grind.

But man what an easy method just need to get experience with MB to reduce damage. Definitely not giving up on it nor method as others are successful.

Guess l have beg to use our variable speed Vitamix.

Did learn one thing, what is inside of a seed and removed by grinding leaves a nice round hollow (see pic) in the hard shell.

[Roseus]

Really sorry about that ! I’ll keep my fingers crossed that you may find the right dose for treatment. Don’t take too many risks.

[RikuHelin]

Completed orientation testing 2n-pollen

Hips used were Skinner’s Butterball, or Yellow Altaica.

Two and half cups of hip’s. Water added until volume on grind beaker read 1000 ml.

Amount of water progressively reduced. Stayed above “ mud” level viscosity.

Method / changes:

No Magic Bullet constant speed grinder -nothing to be gained imo.

1. Used the Vitamix VM0160 variable speed blender with a drive train reliability of the famous T-34. Better half at work.

2. 2 x 3 minute grinds at lowest speed.

So low that its the speed you get when you turn it on. Theoretically 0 on dial, but not so, and not labelled 0 on dial. But rotates.

1x 3 minute grind at setting of 2 on dial.

1x 3 minute grind at setting 4 - good vortex

3. All screen retains re-combined for grind tests 1 to 2.

4. Test 3 seeds on secondary screen (smallest holes) set aside

5. Test 3 O/S reground

Findings of “no” seed damage, even at 4 on speed dial.

Final product, where l quit contains finely shredded hip material.

Bottom deck openings start to blind with accumulated fine ground / chopped hip skin.

Look for larger opening than l used for smallest screen, but smaller than seed size.

Still Superior by miles to hand shucking once l changed to variable speed blender.

Got OPs collected of Carefree Beauty and R. virginiana l am going try and starting at highest speed used and notching up until damage noted to seed.

1st grinding

Intermediate # Test Grinding

Final

Final Seed

Final “Reject”

[James_D]

The juice could be useful for rose wine…

[Margit_Schowalter]

Hi Rick
Very interesting and inspiring experiment .
Thanks for sharing this.

[RikuHelin]

Yes neat idea - but not sure about fermented flavour of altaica wine, but colour of it will probably look like its between the dark of a heavy Boudreaux or brick red Barolo.

Think only have to strain it through cheese cloth. Ferment and age it for probably 50 years to get a tone down or get rid of the likely astringent new taste.

Heading back to Cornwall in a couple of weeks for family duties… best climate … but this time of year it means watching the wild seas on the cliff faces along the Sennen - St Just coast … but including a visit to ruined tin mines, that are well preserved heritage, plus a must visit to Burncoose nursery and other local garden centres to reload for germination try number 6 or so … for meconopsis varieties as well sweet peas etc (more varieties …) and to peruse other garden future green experiments. The double Californian poppy “copper yellows and single reds” brought back before were loving this droughty summer … also have to search for more of those weird big poppy’s.

Gads love the Duchy, palms and all.

[RikuHelin]

Hi Margit, thanks it was fun and think l am on the path to optimizing the variables. Only thing is to figure out the right balance of speed, mesh size and grind intensity to reduce gangue and prevent seed breaking.

Higher speed l believe and enlarge openings in bottom screen. Not looking for perfection as seed loss goes up the more l work it (aka 1 grind best). A nice clean seed is not a practical goal or a requirement vs amount of work to get there. Just targeting esthetics.

[lee_hull]

Rick, after seeing your failed 1st experiment, you have validated my fears of using my ancient single speed Osterizer (with the nasty sharp emulsifying blade).

But I thought I might mention that there are gentler blade options available for many blenders, and that may be a possibility if anybody else cares to try it (not me, I’m a coward with my own babies )

[RikuHelin]

Thanks for the idea. Never thought about checking if that alternative exists for the Magic Bullet standard arrangement.

For me though, my DW’s Vitamix birthday present is what l classify as sunk capital. Aka as it is there, paid off, so available if l exercise/use discretion during working hours. If it breaks blame it on my adult son’s protein shake use … even though he now uses a hand held blender … another avenue to explore.

However my main focus is on kitchen colander mesh opening size variety.

But l remembered, by watching Monty making “right soil” in the past, l have a potential way to get what l need instead buying expensive “mining lab sifters/screens” … buy garden ones.

Vary from pricey to half pricey. Get two frames and in theory all set … with the manual kitchen version

… 5 screen mesh size on its way and might beat the snow.

[RikuHelin]

Ahha … just learned on BBC GW how an expat Tibetan, who took 3 tries, did it.

Pearlite on bottom, then soil followed by small gravel. Sprinkle seeds into gravel. Moisten, but not damp, and in a cool place.

Saw the proof to make me a believer.

[RikuHelin]

Made it back … and to a few Surry UK garden centres.

Made Cornwall’s Burncoose nursery at the height of “Bertie” blow - deserted.

Not been in one of those gales with 60 - 80 mph winds and horizontal driving rain while touring an outside and tented nursery.

Interesting experience … only cost a couple soggy cigars and lost coffee volume due to coffee tsunami waves and a favoured hat … but found my seeds of meconopsis varieties - left one pack of each for the locals.

[TimHAll]

@RikuHelin

Skinner’s Butterball

I’m wondering if you have a nursery source for butterball?