Hello everyone,
I have 5 seedlings from last year, born in January 2024 and growing vigorously through this summer on one single stem, but no flower at all. Could they be climbers ? Would they ever bloom ? Now we entered Fall and soon they will go dormant. I would appreciate if you would share your experiences and knowledge about my questions. Thanks in advance.
How big are those pots?
What sort of growing medium & fertilizer did you use?
Where did you grow them (inside/outside)?
What are their parents?
You do not have to divulging lineage if you donât want to. If one or both of the parents was/were a once-blooming rose, then these will take 2-5 years before their first bloom.
Thank you, VanlsleDWSmith,
All my seedlings are planted in 15 Liters pot with good rose soil mixed with 2 years old compost. I use in spring fertilizers high N, low P and medium K and at the end of summer, Low in N, Low in P and high in K. All my seedlings are born inside during the winter and transplanted to bigger pots outside in spring. The parents are not climbers, neither once flowering shrubs. The 5 seedlings that grow without flowering are incredibly healthy and vigorous, it is a pity they did not bloom. The plants on the pictures look small, but they are actually 1meter long.
Thank you, Jwindha,
Nice to know that it takes 2 to 5 years for a once-blooming cultivar to show any flower. I will definitely keep it in mind. 
I never use once flowering roses and I do not have any in my garden. I have many OGR, but they are all repeat-flowering. However, one never knows with seedlings, if they have been bred with a once flowering cultivar to start with âŚ
Unfortunately due to pollen incompatibility when crossbreeding my roses I mix all my selected and viable pollen to increase my chances, reason why I never know who the polen-parents are. Sometimes I can guess the polen-parent when I see the bloom or if the foliage is so special that I can recognize similarities.
Some will literally never flower. Why? Who knows? Ralph Moore raised MANY species crosses which grew like Kudzu and never flowered, no matter what he did to them. The worst one I raised was a cross between a mini and Basyeâs Legacy which I held for SEVEN YEARS before it flowered. It was NOT worth the time, room nor water waiting for it.
Thank you Roseseek,
I will definitely give them a chance, as they look very healthy, but only until next year. I have already a bunch of new seeds waiting to mature on my rose bushes.
Luckily your cross between a mini/Basye`s legacy finally flowered for you, but I agree, 7 years is such a long time to wait.
I am new on rose breeding, but I have already learned to see from sprouting and through the first 60 days of a seedling, which ones will flower and which ones will keep growingâŚ
Youâre welcome, @roseral . I should add, it also depends upon what youâre seeking from the crosses. Mr. Moore theorized that those which flowered early, in the first season and while still small, were likely those more likely to be smaller, bushier, repeat flowering types, which is what he sought. Those which didnât flower until later years may be climbers or may require harsher cold to induce flowering. That may be OK, IF thatâs what you want. If not, why waste the time and other resources waiting?
Thank you! It reenforces my suspection that the ones I had blooming from the start, did not make it for me, since I look for a kind of big OGR. . I agree with you, why waste time and efforts. I am learning how to sort them out while growing them⌠Last year I had 400 seedlings and I will probably have 1000 this year and so on. I wish to learn to see which ones are " inside my breeding program ".
If your seed parent is (or your mixed pollen involves) some of these OGRs, thatâs not strange. Note that since reblooming is recessive and linked with juvenile blooming, thatâs about the genotype from China roses (ksncopia and ksnnull, both KSN gene which inhibits reblooming completely lose function). Other reblooming genotypes, maybe KSNA181, may not linked with juvenile blooming, and may cause some strange results. I have about one dozen of R. moschata (may have KSNA181) x âMutabilisâ (ksncopia / ksnnull) sowed this year. Despite both parents are repeat blooming, only 2 of seedlings show stable juvenile blooming (although much larger than a âtypicalâ one when flowering). Others only occasional bloom, or, for the most, NEVER blooms until now. I also have about 50 R. rugusa OP, their parents are repeat blooming but only a small portion of them bloomed this autumn. So repeat genotype like KSN*A181 is unlikely linked with absence of juvenile period.
Kawamura, K., Ueda, Y., Matsumoto, S., Horibe, T., Otagaki, S., Wang, L., Wang, G., Hibrand-Saint Oyant, L., Foucher, F., Linde, M., & Debener, T. (2022). The identification of the Rosa S -locus provides new insights into the breeding and wild origins of continuous-flowering roses. Horticulture research , 9 , uhac155. identification of the Rosa S-locus provides new insights into the breeding and wild origins of continuous-flowering roses | Horticulture Research | Oxford Academic
The supplementary table of this article lists many KSN genotyping results of roses. Note that many repeat blooming OGRs (and some moderns) are NOT homozygous ksn (to my surprise, Blush Noisette and Gruss an Teplitz). If you use them as parents, itâs possible to get seedlings without juvenile blooming, or even once blooming ones.
makes me think of a seedling I saw on helpmefind recently, an OP from Peach Crest took 11 years from seedling to first bloom.
Andre has way more patience (and i would imagine real estate) than i do to wait that long. (I was tempted to suggest 7 years, like Kim, but assumed my deplorable cultivation might be my issue. By that time I would no doubt have trouble recalling my initial rationale for a cross.)
I have several hips of R. setigera serena x Moje Haammarberg developing and find myself already questioning the waiting period to see blooms, should any sprout and live. (The daddy hates central Texas.) R.s.s. is one of my few parents with planned crosses whose hips werenât stripped by vermin. (That and Carefree Beauty. That beast gives me nearly 1000 op seeds each year. I am convincing myself as a type this that I really need to lean on her more for planned crosses but uninspired pink has not been in my goals lately.)
It may be my imagination, but all other things being equal, it seems rodents prefer the bite-sized fruits. (Primary metric for destruction appears to be proximity to fence line or tree - over 90% of my planned crosses this year! Argg!)
Did you check for Midge?
Plants grow well but a midge. Infestation would mean no blooms
Leave me out of it D/just_roses; itâs not my issue or plant.
Thank you so much, Mingwei!
Although I am not an expert in rose genetics, I do understand well your explanation and I got the point on why some of my roses are not blooming yet, or will never bloom. Thank you for your explanation on my specific question. I will definitely read some more about genotypes.
I have many plants that do not bloom their first season: expected are those who have a parent that is once blooming, and also many rugosas, all of which can take 2 to 5 years as mentioned, or never for those who have the patience to find out.
However, I also have seedlings that are crosses of two modern shrubs that refuse to bloom until the second or even third year. Most of those plants did eventually bloom and did end up repeat blooming roses, in fact several repeat very quickly. I donât know why this is the case, perhaps the complicated background of the shrubs, or perhaps the wide crosses I have done. But it happens fairly frequently. Some of them have definitely proven to be worth the wait!
Then again, I have a lot of seedlings that donât bloom for several years (working with most old rose classes, Rugosa hybrids, species and species hybrids). Also, my crosses of modern shrubs with many of the Canadian Roses do not bloom the first season, and end up with little repeat, or none at all. (Not always the case, but more often than not.)
If you donât have a lot of seedlings alread, they would be worth waiting for if you have the room: at least that way you will know.)
Duane
Hello Duane,
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience! Much appreciated! I will definately give my seedlings one or two years to see if they bloom.I believe that it is worth to wait. All my seedlings blooming after 60 days did not make it for me and the ones blooming much later gave me bigger and more beautiful roses.
I had three seedlings that I had kept from Zaide (Kordes hybrid tea): I had placed a blend
of pollens from cold hardy plants on it.
One of those seedlings bloomed its third year, one in the fourth, and the last here in its fifth year. Definitely worth the wait! Especially as the last one (being so mature) set hips from its first round of bloom, letting me test to see if it will work as a seed parent right away. I do think looking at the three plants (both growth and bloom) that each is from a different pollen parent. It is interesting to see the difference between them, especially as they are all from the same seed parent.
Duane
