Rugosa Roses

General Discussion
1

Can someone tell what class of rose is on either side of ‘Rugosa’s’. Does this make sense, this might be worded wrong, but, what I think I am asking is as classes of roses seem to me live side by side from the “original” rose so I was thinking ‘what lives either side’ of it. If I am wrong tell me please, thanks in advance David M.

2

David,

I’m not 100% sure what you’re asking, however, R. rugosa is a species rose, and has been created through natural selection by Mother Nature. Hybrids created with R. rugosa as a parent are classed as Hybrid Rugosas. There are other examples where R. rugosa and her hybrids have had their offspring classed simply as Shrubs (Corylus).

Andy

3

Hi David, might you be asking what species are indigenous where Rugosa roses are? Sort of like companion species? Kim

4

Do you mean Rugosa’s botanical relatives? If so it would be the Cinnamomae section roses.

Rogers Roses has a family list here:

Link: www.rogersroses.com/gallery/default~gid~14~page~1~startPage~1~chr~.asp

5

Andy, Kim, Jinks, Thanks,

Sorry to confuse everyone. Ok we have 2 things here, if R.rugosa is a species(Cinnamomae). What came before it (botanically speaking) and after it. On the far right we hypothecically speaking Hybrid Teas and on the left something else( I do not know what). So far does this help.

6

There is a rose species “family tree” out there somewhere…if anyone can post a link to that type of information here, it might possibly be of some assistance in this thread.

7

OK David, theoretically, nothing came “before” Rugosa. Unlike some of the other “species”, there hasn’t been anything suggested as a predecesor to them. “After” Rugosa, you have the Hybrid Rugosas or Rugosa Hybrids. These include the traditional things you normally think of as Rugosa Hybrids such as Rose a Parfum de l’Hay, Sir Thomas Lipton, Conrad Ferdinand Meyer, etc. Descended from these, you come all the way down to the Austin hybrids such as Tamora, Cressida and further seedlings of them, as well as other breeders’ efforts. Playboy actually has a double dose of Rugosa, but as a rule, it doesn’t play a significant role in the traditional HT.

Supposedly, Teas, hence HTs are based more on the Asian species (based on theory) with help from the old European “species” brought in through the HPs. Who really knows? Until the DNA is fully mapped and the lines are tested, it’s all based upon supposition. Kim

8

Again thanks Kim and George, George might be on the thing I am looking for the “tree” of roses as we understand it, so far.

Regards as always David.

9

Trees

http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/34/2/341.full.pdf

http://www.amjbot.org/content/95/3/353.full

Tree in relationship to other members of Rosaceae family

http://www.biology.duke.edu/yoderlab/reprints/2003Eriksson_et_alIJPS.pdf

Not a tree but interesting while I am posting links

http://www.scribd.com/doc/47274266/Genetics-and-Genomics-of-Rosaceae

http://www.amjbot.org/content/95/5/597.full

http://sysbio.oxfordjournals.org/content/55/4/623.full

http://www1.unifi.it/caryologia/past_volumes/63_2/1594.pdf

10

I have thought, that some pre R. fedtschenkoana could have been crossed with some pre R. rugosa in ancient times. They are both repeating, cinnamomaes and very prickly cold hardy roses from Asia.