I am interested in working with these two species. What hybrids or clones of these would you work with if you where me? And is there any advice that would help me.
I am working with the species of Rosa rubiginosa. It actually popped up from the graft of my Rosa primula lol. Imagine how that smells in the summer.
So, I tried Rosa rubiginosa x Baby Love. Moral of story: it seemed easier of the two to try (I have access to R. m. ‘Geranium’ too), with a lot more successful hybrids behind it. I got like 300 seeds lol. I will cull by foliage scent and health, I think. I want to eventually cross it with some type of miniature moss or floribunda moss.
I dont know what I would try re: Rosa moyesii. Perhaps one of the tetraploid relations such as Rosa moyesii ‘Fargesii’ since it has been proven viable, and probably not a pain in the posterior to use.
Rubiginosa grows wild around here and has been listed as a noxious weed (if you were working with the species and it isn’t native to your area I would be making sure all hips you didn’t want to use were collected and destroyed if there was a chance animals could spread them… it really has become a serious weed here). Having said that I have been trying to strike cuttings of it so I can play with it too because I like the idea of fragrant foliage… and do you think I can get a cutting to strike… tried four times now and each time they failed. One thing I have noticed, looking at all the wild plants around here, is that there are some that look good as a bush and some that are very poor, skinny, sparse looking things and others that can only manage a single long stem with foliage right at the end. These can found growing next to each other in identical conditions. All the wild plants down here must orginate from seed scattered by animals and not from suckers as you rarely see them in clumps… they are always single plants separated by a few metres. Having seen it growing in stands of more than 100 along the road and in paddocks and seeing so much variation in the mature plants I’ve decided to only take cuttings from the best looking adult ‘feral’ plants because I think it indicates genes for good architecture. So I’d want to see the ‘parent’ before choosing a plant.
‘Nevada’ is a moyesii hybrid isn’t it? It’s nice looking and pretty well behaved in my area. I haven’t tried it yet but like the look of it.
The one I have looks very full and seems to want to arch way up and then way down, which I believe is why a lot of modern climbers descended from Rosa rubiginosa. Keep in mind, though, that my clone is derived from root stock, so I am sure that it was chosen for its ability to put out as much square space of viable wood as possible. Rosa canina seems to have an identical effect, as well as a similar pattern in bloom coloration. The biggest difference between the two that I have noticed, is the canina has sweet scented blooms (intoxicatingly sweet), rubiginosa has the scented foliage, canina has sparser but larger,hooked thorns and rubiginosa has an array of mixed thorn types and density.
I predict that my Rosa rubiginosa x Baby Love seedlings, if any germinate, will be pretty much identical in plant architecture to my current Rosa canina x Baby Love seedlings – which basically look like a smaller version of my Rosa canina x Royal Amethyst (climbing, once-blooming shrub) with slightly more glossy foliage. Both exhibit good health, vigor and disease resistance, however. I’ll be sure to show the blooms whenever they do bloom, which they should.
I hope that helps in the “applied” department.
Simon,
‘Nevada’ is likely a Rosa spinosissima hybrid. Note its black hips.
(David, can I send you a plant in the fall of this cultivar rooted from a cutting to test its ploidy?)
Paul
Adam,
Several years ago, I was surprised to discover a Rosa eglanteria cultivar growing in the St. Albert Botanic Park rose garden (St. Albert is located a few kilometres north of Edmonton, Alberta). I was intrigued with it because the shrub was relatively cold hardy; it would winter kill somewhat but always flowered well the following summer. I wasn’t expecting to see that in a Zone 3 climate for a Rosa eglanteria hybrid.
This Rosa eglanteria cultivar had no label, but when I checked the record of the initial planting of the rose garden there was one cultivar of this species - ‘Magnifica’. The flower form and colour also matches this cultivar, so I believe this is correct. I now have it growing in the Devonian Botanical Garden rose garden. It will be interesting to see how it performs there; the climate is slightly colder than at St. Albert.
The point I want to make is that Wilhelm Kordes had very good success using ‘Magnifica’ in breeding programs, particularly with the development of ‘Fritz Nobis’, ‘Joseph Rothmund’ and ‘Obergartner Wiebicke’. ‘Fritz Nobis’, in my opinion, is one of the most beautiful shrub roses ever developed. There is no reason why ‘Magnifica’ can’t be successfully used in more breeding programs. I’m going to use it with Rugosas this year.
Paul
Hi Paul, I think a lot of the healthier modern yellows owe their positive traits, especially when contrasted to older yellows, to Rosa rubiginosa. Harmonie and Clare Grammerstorf come to mind. So, dont forget them, too 
Also, do not forget Flame Dance, which mingles rugosa, wichurana and rubiginosa! It is once-blooming, but all of the literature that I own states that it is extremely beautiful when it does bloom.
Hi Paul,
That seems to make a lot of sense for ‘Nevada’ being more allied to R. spinosissima. I have thought when I’ve seen it and its pink sport that they don’t seem to look like R. moyesii. I have access to a plant at one of the public rose gardens here in Mnpls. There was a report years ago that it is tetraploid and its pollen diameter when I looked at it (40.1 with a SD of 3.6) seemed to be consistent with that. I can try to root a cutting and confirm it this spring.
David
Jadae,
You make an interesting observation regarding some of the best yellow cultivars having Rosa eglanteria in their pedigree. It seems to me though that the most valuable Rosa eglanteria hybrids for breeding are the ones closest to the species. "Magnifica’, for example, is likely 1/4 Rosa eglanteria. It still has the scented foliage of the species. Also, hybrids close to the species have, of course, more vigour. Needless to say, this trait is important to incorporate in a breeding program.
Im amazed there apparently arent any hybrids of Lord Penzance(Rosa eglanteria x Harisons YellowandLady Penzance(Rosa eglanteria x Rosa foetida bicolour). Here we have relatively cold hardy (Zone 4) species and near species hybrids with yellow in the parentage. Yet they have not been exploited to produce cold hardier yellows or interesting colour combinations having perhaps scented foliage.
Ive essentially duplicated the cross that produced Lord Penzance, except I used Hazeldeanas the staminate parent. Hopefully, some of the progeny will be one zone cold hardier thanLord Penzance. No seedlings yet but maybe this year. The goal is to eventually develop Pillar roses (maybe they would be Climbers in warmer climates) for Zone 3 climates having Rosa eglanteria in the pedigree. A route to achieve this would be to incorporate such a hybrid into the Explorer Rosa kordesii cultivars. Something similar to Kordes development of Flammentanz.
Hi Paul, one of the traits in the modern yellows descending from Rosa rubiginosa that I use for breeding is the ability to send up well-behaved, yet vigorous climber seedlings. Toprose and Solitaire and prime examples of this. But, also, we have the Westerland line as well to thank for this.
So, I would not distinctly say that there is any sort of hierarchy (re: most valuable) of what is better than the next because it is scenario dependent, but I would say that the lines stemming from Rosa rubiginosa are full of positive traits that are excellent for further development of the rose world.
Mike Lowe in New Hampshire recently produced some eglanteria hybrids, such as Irene’s Delight (orange) and Lowe’s Eglanteria (red).
Lady Penzance suffered from blackspot here in Northern California, where blackspot is rare. I didn’t keep it for long.
David, I just found a reference in one of my books by Austin (lol I love his subjective critiques on how roses look gardens, good reads). He stated that he thought it was most likely a hybrid of Rosa moyesii ‘Fargesii’. I have zero opinion on the matter, though.
“‘Nevada’ is likely a Rosa spinosissima hybrid. Note its black hips.”
I disagree here. I do not grow Nevada but a few years ago I was forbiden to continue gathering the few partially red OP hips on a few very large old plants at Bagatelle Garden Paris.
Got few seeds and no seedlings I remember.
Posted by dave wolfe:
“Mike Lowe in New Hampshire recently produced some eglanteria hybrids, such as Irene’s Delight (orange) and Lowe’s Eglanteria (red).”
Does anyone know the parentage of Mike Lowe’s new eglanteria hybrids? Just wondering how close to the species they might be.
Thanks, Tom
Ashdown’s site says Lowe’s Eglanteria has some repeat and does not have scented foliage, which may be clues to how close it is to species.
I germinated a few Greenmantle seeds last year and the very young seedlings had scented foilage but after a few months no more sscent so I discarded them. This year I crossed Armada X Greenmantle and the young seedlings have scented foilage and many have bloomed like they will be repeat blooming. Only time will tell if the scented foilage will remain. I tried to use Greenmantle as a seed parent with several other varities both diploid and tetraploid and none took but the pollen seems to work very well. Greenmantle has very scented foilage and I will always have it in my yard.
Patrick
I got apple scented foliage out of ‘Goldbusch’. I found it very easy to work with though relatively few seedlings will be remontant in the first generation.
It also derives from ‘Magnifica’.
Link: www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=1833&tab=21&lstTyp=16
Thanks for all the suggestions. I think I might Start with applejack and Goldbusch. As for the R. moyesii I have no idea. Most of these seem infertile.
Adam, if you kept anything out of those mini seedlings I sent you try it on Goldbusch. It’s an easy seed parent.
The nice thing is that you will know what is remontant right away and can junk the rest.
The resulting seedlings will be a distant line breeding on ‘Golden Glow’.