Removing Rootstock entirely and replanting stem?

[ReclusiveEagle]

I bought a David Austin rose from the largest nursery in South Africa. Rose is Sharifa Asma. Apparently in South Africa roses are not sold as bareroot. Unlike the US we only have 1 major national supplier who only sells grafted roses. Apparently rootstock here is Multiflora.

As I was purchasing Sharifa Asma I was told that these are the last ones in stock and they would no longer be propagated locally. Which as far as I can tell means that Sharifa will only be available privately as David Austin no longer sells it in the US or UK. So, I’d like to grow a second Sharifa as a backup in case anything happens to the first.

There are many new growths coming up from the soil that aren’t attached to the bud union nor the actual rootstock. So I assume that these are multiflora. Personally I don’t want to have to deal with the rootstock taking over the only Sharifa I will probably ever be able to get.

So my question is, is it possible to completely cut off the entire stem, remove the rootstock, throw it away, replant the stem alone, and attempt to create an own root rose using an existing stem from a bud union? Or should I wait for it to flower and attempt to grow a second from cuttings and hips once they fully develop? It’s almost end of winter here, September is the start of spring so we are ± a month/month and a half from it being warm enough to take roses out of dormancy.

[roseseek]

@ReclusiveEagle

There are many new growths coming up from the soil that aren’t attached to the bud union nor the actual rootstock. So I assume that these are multiflora.

They are either remnants of another rose previously planted in that spot or they are attached to the roots of Sharifa Asma. The first thing you need to determine is what they are. If they aren’t part of Sharifa, you can carefully dig them out. Your question about digging the plant and removing the entire stem and replanting it is guaranteed to kill the plant. Your best bet is to figure out where they are coming from and deal with each one appropriately. Wait for Sharifa to flower and begin trying to root the stems from the spent flowers. Once you have another, or multiples, you can decide what you want to do with the original budded plant, but don’t do anything to destroy that until you have replacements in hand.

[Spiritstonesilver]

I learned the hard way that rooting some roses is very very tricky. I have just created a bottom heat table with a humidity enclosure and digital reptile aquarium misting system to improve my chances of success. It seems to be working but I started my third attempt with rose clippings cut from around the neighborhood in abandoned lots and neglected spaces.

To seriously root a clipping you will have to ensure that the lateral “buds” are swollen and a touch of blush is present. Too red and they are too far gone. When I say “buds” I AM NOT REFERING TO FLOWERS. In the armpit of every leaf set you will find a little bud at some point that represents the roses interest in sending out a new branch at some point in the future. This is “stem cell” material that can be encouraged to become various types of tissues if the conditions are right.

Clip the cutting 1/4inch or less from the last lateral bud that is blush with very clean shears. DIP IN ROOTING HORMONE. Get some. Then the issue becomes ensuring you have a relatively disease free rooting medium. Peat moss does not work for me. It is too acidic and water absorptive.

Counterintuitively you will need to ensure that the medium has excellent drainage and does not hold onto too much moisture. The risk that it will become too dry for a short period of time is VASTLY superior to a rooting medium that absolutely holds onto too much moisture.

The cuttings want to rot. Your job is to keep them on the cusp of survivability for an extended period of time. This can only be accomplished in an enclosed environment that offers near 100% ambient humidity while at the same time is not a diseased cesspool. Pretty tricky.

I am having callousing of this crop and I never really got that far in my last attempts.I gave up on any significant organics in the rooting media. Mostly perlite with just a little coarse sand and for water holding ability—PINE BARK MULCH. No compost, no dirt, nothing with microbiota activity. The Pine Bark Mulch really does the trick to suppress fungal growth (so far fingers crossed) .

Passively waiting for the enclosed system to encourage callousing of the ends and eventual roots is a massacre. You will lose most of what you attempt. The stagnant air and too much moisture, to begin with, are the killers.

It’s really hard to get it right especially with multiple cuttings. To do this in quantity you want a modestly ventilated system with a bottom heat cable and an overhead timed mist. Aliexpress and Temu offer such digital systems for reptile aquariums-all you have to do is have a 5-gallon bucket with water, the pump is integrated into the timing unit. A complete set can be had at this time for 37ish$$ USD.

Also your cuttings, regardless of the method you chose will need to have significant sheltering from intense light that will sap their stored energy reserves and cause them to attempt to leaf out before they even have roots to nourish the growth. Plants are like stupid little defective machines. They will self-destruct without intervention. Thus bottom heat to stimulate root development from calloused cut ends, a loose disease free propagation media that will not harbor microbiotics and the overhead mist to provide timed moisture release to keep the tissues hydrated and shade for the early weeks of the cuttings rooting cycle to keep the lateral buds (your clipping should have at least three up to five or six (six is kinda too many) from popping out leaves without a root system to support them.

Some things to think about-

The base of your cutting should be a blush lateral bud. You cannot just cut a piece of stem anywhere convenient and hope for roots. The last bud is the tissue that can be coaxed into becoming roots. Thus the rooting hormone.

If you have a vigorous in ground plant I would advise you to explore “air-layering” as a propagation method. This procedure is more surgical. Only downside is you need to not kill your patient. Like a c-section I guess. You are trying to rescue the baby and NOT KILL MOM.

Your rose does not sucker however the fake conditions of suckering can be mimicked artificiallly. It will require you to choose a juicy stem above the graft line. DO NOT GO FOR THE MAIN STEMS! You take this stem and circumcise the green outer skin. Like maybe a two inch section of stem where you want the base of the new rose to be. You read that right. You are removing the skin of the circumference of this stem.Nicely, with a high aesthetic value and with precision. It needs to be clean and decent and consistent. You then scrape away a thin amount of a light mucosal layer just underneath the skin. You want to be down to the pale inner bark without tearing things up too badly. This require surgical precision and some decency in regards to cleanliness. You should use a little rooting hormone on this exposed pale inner bark.

You have a smallish plastic baggie. You want a plastic tube with two open ends so cut the bottom off. Slide this down from the top of the circumcised stem to the area where you performed this surgical procedure. Secure one end of the plastic bag with a zip tie to an area just beyond the surgical area.

Because this procedure enables your potential baby rose to continue to recieve nutrients and emotional support from its mother you may use dirt/compost/peat-based soil media. Don’t be stingy and don’t be ridiculous but stuff the bag with a reasonable amount of this media. It should be fairly moist. Squeeze the media around the wound and seal it with another zip tie. Ideally this bag will not allow light to penetrate. I’m not sure how important that is but it is recommended Leave for three weeks and don’t mess with it. Just believe in yourself and the good surgical procedure you performed. Return to investigate after the expected time period. You may discover that roots are growing through the media. If so and they are confidence inspiring clip the baby off and replant into a pot. Some find this the easier method but I can’t have my exotic roses growing in shale clay and I am just starting out. Dr. Huey can somehow do it here but even the feral multiflora choke on my native soil and never get impressive here.

[MidAtlas]

I vote for cuttings, although I wouldn’t anticipate a great deal of difficulty rooting these. I usually have good luck callusing cuttings of many roses in a small amount of clean water before sticking them, after which they are far less prone to rotting because the wound end is sealed with callus tissue. You just need to keep the cuttings in a bright place and replace the water periodically (every few days at first, and after that whenever it looks less than fully clean); I rinse the base of the cuttings at the same time, and if needed, rub gently with my fingers to clean the base. When the very bottom of the stem starts to flare out a bit, that’s a good sign that callusing is beginning to occur. I try to wait until there is at least a fair amount of light-colored, healthy callus tissue (looking a bit like cauliflower) visible before sticking, although some roses will even begin to send out roots into the water. You don’t want them to make too many water roots before getting them potted. Once sufficiently callused, they can then go into any slightly moist potting medium of your choice (no rooting hormone needed). After giving the potted and firmed in cuttings a very slight watering to settle them, I seal them in plastic bags with a bit of paper towel folded under the pot to absorb excess moisture. I leave them in a bright place (artificial lighting works particularly well) until I see new growth, then slowly acclimate them to the open air again.

Handled in this way, the time spent in high humidity is much less than with conventional rooting methods, so leaves aren’t prone to rotting the whole time, and stem rot is rare in clean water unless the stems are already infected with something. This may not work well with especially difficult to root species and classes, but most reblooming modern and any China/Synstylae-based roses are perfect candidates. One benefit is that the cuttings can be taken slightly younger and earlier than with direct-sticking rooting methods; the younger growth (provided it isn’t too tender and actively growing–tips including any largely unexpanded leaves should be snipped off) will finish maturing while the cutting’s base calluses.

Stefan

[Spiritstonesilver]

Stefan where are you located at? I had considered water storage for a little while but during the warm season here fungal spores proliferate at every opportunity and so it never worked out for me with rose cuttings. Basil can do that here and a few other lower value annuals but I always had the blackish/brownish death creep up the stems even in clean water changes. Don from reverence from roses recommended an anti fungal for soaking but I was never able to get my hands on some (expensive$$$). How much stem to you recommend being submerged in water?

[MidAtlas]

I’m located just outside of Washington, DC. I frequently sterilize my shears and only submerge the base of the cutting in water–usually not much higher than the base of the lowest leaf–and rarely have any serious problems. While I’m using (treated) city water, this also worked nicely with untreated well water in Minnesota. Maybe you could try first decontaminating the stems with a mild solution of chlorine bleach (I believe there are plant-safe protocols available), then rinsing briefly and making a fresh cut using sterilized shears. If the container or water might be a source of contamination, you might be able to use a bleach solution or other sterilization techniques to reduce or eliminate the inoculum.

Stefan

[Spiritstonesilver]

Thank you. I will attempt to callus in this manner for a trial crop. I keep very high standards for sharpness and sterility of the cutting shears but it’s a bit of a pain in the ass to boil water for every water change. I will definately attempt a trial with a water callous step.

@ReclusiveEagle Welcome!!! Our notification bot is telling us this is your first post! You may be suprised to know that your Sharifa Asma has become very rare here in the US as well and you are wise to inquire on methods to propagate it. This rose has been out of patent for years. It is totally legal to do so and this rose is seed fertile and pollen fertile. It is the mother of the Generous Gardener and Rosemoor as well as several other descendants. It is now your duty to ensure this rose has a future for all our friends in South Africa

So don’t be shy and tell us–what other roses have you got?

[ReclusiveEagle]

For now, Sharifa Asma, Ace of Hearts, and Avant-Garde but I am buying more today. Oh no trust me I’m immediately going to propagate a second after winter ends in August. I’m also trying to find Sweet Juliet which apparently is no longer sold because:

“Which we had found not suitable for our climate.”

— Largest South African Nursery

Which makes no sense to me when, according to The American Rose Society’s database, Sharifa and Juliet share the same parent, Admired Miranda.

All roses in South Africa are also grown on rootstock (I believe Multiflora, that’s what I was told). UK also has a way harsher climate than South Africa does. If it was bred in the UK and could survive there, I really don’t understand why a warmer climate is an issue? Even if it get’s too much sun, you can easily diffuse the light with polycarbonate sheets. So that makes no sense to me.

Update:
Bought Belle Rouge ^DELogo and Princess Alexandra of Kent.

[roseseek]

It’s common for offspring of the same parent, even siblings from the same hip, to vary greatly in climate suitability (heat/cold tolerance; disease resistance; roots suitable for soil/water types and likely many other issues) so it’s entirely possible Sweet Juliet isn’t suitable for that climate. It could also be the flowers don’t hold up to the sun intensity where the other variety does. Or, as is often the case, it doesn’t propagate as easily or the sales aren’t as good, so it isn’t as profitable to produce.

[MidAtlas]

Rob, it’s relatively unlikely that your water is the problem, unless you’re using surface or rain water–I would focus first on cleaning up the cutting’s stem (and the vessel, especially if it was used for that purpose before, although a good washing or two should really eliminate anything that would tend to specifically attack roses).

I grew Sharifa Asma here for a bit, but it was incredibly susceptible to blackspot here. It’s a wonderful rose otherwise. The Generous Gardener is a far healthier variety, so if the parentage is correct, the other parent may have contributed significantly to its disease resistance. Both seem to have a lot to offer for breeders.

Stefan

[Spiritstonesilver]

I understand your perogative completely and agree with you. Just get what you can get. Sort out the mess of specificity at a later date. Even if you never select it for breeding efforts you still have the parent plant to propagate from at a later date. Every season it just gets harder and harder to get anything you even aesthetically appreciate let alone actually want to grow.

Here in the States the commercial nurseries are one in the same as our large chain hardware building supply stores and are dominated by the sales of Knock out (you can have this rose and its derivatives at any moment every day of the week 12 months out of the year) Some drift roses or whatever is attempting to compete with Knock-out that season and- for a two month period you can sometimes find a grafted specimen of a famous hybrid tea. This year- just for fun I got Blue Girl, Tiffany (upon Paul Bardens Recommendation), and Maurice Utrillo. And they are all perfoming well enough that I can attempt cuttings. This was a stellar year for grafted hybrid teas however as it is very non-typical that I would have come across an opportunity to find these.

If you seek out a specialty nursery they will stock a selection of Austin IP Corp’s B-tier roses that people will snap up like rabid dogs for maybe a 2 week period. It will be much more expensive than buying the bareroot directly from Austin and it won’t be the Austin you wanted. It’ll be something like Sweeny Todd Rose or Margaret Thatcher’s Iron Fist or something you never heard of. That is all you will ever see IN REAL LIFE for all your efforts.

We have in total maybe 7 or so nurseries that will send you rare varieties by online mail order. They all have like 80% of their inventory out of stock at all times. You gamble your hard-earned money and they send you a box full of bands that you have to nurture and baby and guard for the next two years of your life. For the most part, you receive twigs with some roots attached but hey it’s own root! And they only cost like 25$ or more each. so yeah. It’s not easy to acquire here in the US by any means

Acquisition and growing out seems to be a very difficult aspect to this. I am just about done acquiring roses through the niche nurseries. All my roses are “thriving” but oh my god. Own root roses take forever to gain real momentum. Don’t be too discriminate on the own root thing. It’s a long slog. You can always try to root a cutting of a successful rose at some point in the future. Having a vigorous specimen of anything fertile is what you are after. Then of course the whole world opens to you in terms of propagation for “profit” and opportunities for cross polination. I absolutely would not give up any of my roses at this point they bring me so much joy and optimism but I am becoming exhausted with the process of acquiring compatible parents for hybridization just a tad bit. You should reveal a little about your aesthetic ideals and let the commentary on here crowd source some suggestions. There’s lots of weird beforehand knowledge that is very helpful to know but NOT intuitive about parent selection. No one will criticise your goals, I for one have grown plenty of other types of plants and I don’t feel that roses are particularly diseased in any significant way comparatively but many on here believe that all breeding efforts of the prior several decades resulted in an extinction-level event for roses (I’m exaggerating a little) . Please tell us more about your goals and visions for your hybridization efforts? Your 5 year plan please.

[ReclusiveEagle]

I think the issue people have with the “Disease Resistant” label is that it is just marketing. From what I have seen, every nursery and seller advertises the impressive “Disease resistance!” of their plants as the main selling point. But why does that label even exist when even any research on roses describes them as “naturally disease resistant and extremely hardy.”

Which is true, you can go to any cemetery around the world and find roses that have been growing there for 300+ years with their only threats being ground staff. Same for European castles and estates and old gardens. Most of these places hold the only known examples left of insert species because the rest were destroyed and lost over the years due to fire, pollution, leveling land to create new developments etc.

Even if you go to Middle Eastern countries or China, you will find wild roses that have grown where they are, in some cases like abandoned Greek and Roman cities, for over a two thousand years. So why then are modern hybrids advertised for their disease resistance when many old roses aren’t even susceptible to black spot, or any other disease that roses face today?

It seems that often the only difference between a “Disease Resistant!” rose and one that is “highly susceptible to disease, don’t purchase this.” is whether or not Diplocarpon rosae or botrytis spores are present in your soil or not, whether or not eriophyids carry Rose Rosette, etc. Which if that is the case, there is literally no difference between a rose advertised as “disease resistant!” and one that is not.

Then you have to question “Why is disease resistance so heavily marketed? Has it always been this way?”. Judging from advertisements and surviving documents from the 1800s to early 1900s, the only thing that was advertised was the “beauty, fragrance, and easy to grow!”. So somewhere in between then and now the “disease resistant” label was created which also happens to coincide with the explosion of hybridization of teas, floribundas, etc.

I think part of the problem is not necessarily hybridization, but propagation from 1 linage. Even with these massive hybrid farms, every example of a new rose comes from effectively 1 parent that was whittled down from thousands and then propagated into millions of stems. This destroys the gene pool for that specific species. Since many modern hybrids can be traced back to the original hybridization in the 1800s, any issues with that original plant are exacerbated throughout the entire process until now.

That’s not to say every wild species is entirely disease resistant. For example if China roses were susceptible to blackspot but European roses weren’t, but the East Asian climate limited or prevented blackspot spores from ever germinating then it wouldn’t have been an issue. But then, in this example if a China rose is brought to the European climate to encounter diseases that it does not naturally have in it’s native environment, then bred with a European rose, that would compromise the disease resistance of the new hybrid. I assume this scenario is the reason why hybrid and modern roses today are so suspectable to disease around the world.

Hybridization and Globalization has enabled these diseases to travel to every continent while also compromising the modern rose’s immunity through depleted gene pools. The best way to deal with this is not back breeding with old roses to create new varieties only to make the same mistakes of depleting gene pools. It’s to create multiple examples of each new rose species using multiple different parent plants of the same chosen species.

Disease resistance would then be inherited by propagating the, for example 50 original plants of this new species. Instead of breeding thousands of plants, whittle that down to 10 interesting new roses and from that one existing example create millions more.

[roseseek]

Partly. “Disease resistance” depends upon a multitude of factors, not the least of which is WHICH race (s) of spotting diseases exist where the rose is grown; whether that genetic combination is resistant to it and whether anything is inhibiting the immunity of the rose against that (those) diseases. R. Arkansana is supposedly “disease resistant”, yet it will rust like an old iron skillet when sufficiently water stressed. It may not “spot” or mildew, but it does rust. Nature actually appears to use the rust to “tell” the rose when to defoliate and shut down to provide the “Arctic hardiness” it is famous for. Knock Out is “disease resistant” in that it resists spotting in many locations, against more of the races of black spot than any other rose. They DO, however, rust and mildew with the worst of them. The marketing, of course, reports any and every potential positive about the new rose, whether it is applicable to every location, or not.

[Spiritstonesilver]

Ok yes! I sensed that this conversation needed to happen and the conceptualization of what exactly we are going to be doing moving forward needs to be discussed.

My plan is to create “complimentary” lineages.

I agree with you to an extent-make the species hybrids and keep anyone that is in alignment with your aesthetic goals. Mate all the siblings of a cross to another species-modern hybrid sibling family group and see what comes of it. Don’t bother selecting one “primogenitor” to represent the “pinnacle” of a hybridization effort- keep several of the successful siblings and try each one on the siblings of another successful lineage.

It is not feasible for me to source species seeds from multiple sources to ensure that each seedling was not collected from the same parent plant. However that is a good idea that has crossed my mind and in the span of time perhaps that will become my next paradigm. . That will have to wait till I have more resources at my disposal and have relocated to the islands where grow seasons are longer. I could never trust it unless there were multiple sources in the country of origin of the rose or if I collected the seeds from vendors over a large span of time. There is no way to tell how many individuals were actually imported into the US of some of these species so they could all be clones of a few individuals importees if that!

If they can be attained- both Moore and Rupert created a wide variety of species hybrids in the prior decades here in the States that already have repeat bloom genetics. No sense in ignoring their lifetime of work while it still exists to be attained. Burling Leong still retains and propagates many of Moore’s IP hybrids. Rupert is our very own “Roseseek” I have never encountered Rippletoe or Barden. Barden has made public statements indicating that he has retired from the field.

Unfortunately, you are an ocean away so this information will not help you to acquire the species hybrids in your home country. Unless you are wealthy enough to go through the official channels to import specimens. and feel that you want to make that investment. However maybe you have a Moore or Rupert in your home country. Maybe Help Me Find can help you to discover someone in your country that has been performing hybridization efforts. Weird -Hard hybridizations.

For now combining a Bracteate hybrid with a bansksia hybrid to produce a sibling group of super rooted roses with glossy gorgeous foliage and repeat bloom that wouldn’t be killed by a little frost is an awesome accomplishment,

Getting a large golden apricot flowered rose with beautiful red barked stems and a tall narrow twiggy growth habit that flowered all spring summer and fall would revolutionize everything for me. That is enough for my current paradigm.

A very mossy white rose that could be grown for excellently formed cut flowers that bloomed all season and had a beautiful fragrance–that would be sensational. An iconic rose that would have people excited.

A simple semi-double wild looking pink rose that would climb or vine with incredible vigor.One that would sprawl and take off in every backyard in my climatic region. It would set red hips and have a very very strong wafting fragrance. I know factually that people would spend good money to have such a rose. It would be iconic. It needs to look like what people imagine a wild rose should look like. It must repeat bloom and be beautifully fragrant and delight young children. Cold hardiness is not an extremely important consideration here. If you had the qualities of beautiful bloom, incredible fragrance and extreme vigor it would be ok for it to behave as a tender perennial as long as propagation was easy enough. Just buy another one if you live in Michigan or wherever. People are constantly replacing their hydrangeas and buddleia which get killed off every couple of years. You want this magical wild looking fragrant pink rose that blooms all summer long then buy another one when a freak cold snap kills it.

You can have the wild experimentation that you want, the openess to experience and the willingness to receive what chance throws at you and still work within an aesthetic framework. So much has already been done in this regard and the part that has captured me so hard is the potential that some of these hybrids have locked within them- a flower form that we have never seen before.

So far as how to select seedlings-

This archive clearly states that mildew propensity in youth can be overcome with maturity and I have witnessed this in the grow out parents. Ping Dong Yue Ji mildewed horribly but overcame this as the temps rose and new growth exploded outward. I would never give up this rose now that it has reached past 18" tall. The mildewed leaves looked bad but the rose was able to produce a first and second flush of not less than 5 excellently formed and fragrant flowers. So mildew resistance in the baby roses will not be playing a life or death role in initial cull selection over other qualities.

This archive has stated that fragrance does tend to improve and strengthen in maturity BUT non fragrant juvenile roses do not become fragrant with age so this will be a criterion for the initial ruthless culling.

I am ignorant of the blackspot pressure others may face. Here the blackspot is merely an assistive mechanism that happens when the Pernetiana’s want to flush out new branches. They have to dump their leaves first for some reason. Some of the vigorous hybrid teas do this as well as Austin’s Evelyn. They dump leaves with the blackspot just as their lateral buds start to swell and a new fresh flush of leafy side stems emerge. It’s a pain to have to manually assist but the roses are high quality so I dont mind. I do not have a strong guideline as of yet on how to deal with blackspot as a selection criterion and I don’t imagine that it will appear in my pampered seedling areas. It really is only a problem when roses enter into that stage of rapid growth and are dumping leaves with swollen nodes. I have not seen any other manifestation of this disease. Ugly leaved roses in my collection are actually a result of certain plants that do not want to relinquish their flowers or their leaves. I consider this a breeding quality. That Leonidas rose has exceptional longevity. His flowers cling NO MATTER WHAT! And two weeks later you have to wrench the dead flowers off. La Reine does this too. I like this trait, as many roses are too wimpy about keeping their flowers on. Seems useful and I hope it passes onto offspring. I suspect it will.

This archive and HMF indicates that several Rosa bansksia hybrids were created in the US by a couple American hybridizers over the course of the last several decades. Though frost-tender this species has the ability to give roses POWERFUL root systems. Bracteate hybrids also do this. In addition to the powerful root systems both of these roses have hybrids that have THE MOST GORGEOUS GLOSSY SLICK BEAUTIFULLY COLORED FOLIAGE THAT NOTHING CAN PENETRATE AND WRECK. These are two species you may have access to in your country. The archive has stated that hybrids with these two species are a bit difficult to attain and are rare but we have identified a few MUTANT “fertile triploid” roses that can cross reproductive barriers and produce viable offspring despite not sharing any real heritage with one another. If you are able to attain any of these roses your hybridization efforts with the species you end up gathering will be much easier (supposedly). Some that may be available to you are-

DEE LISH Meilland
Blue for You
April Moon (Not sure if Griffith Buck Roses ever went international)
If Austin’s Belle Story is available to you GET IT! It is very likely triploid and has proven itself to make very wide crosses.

I have a fairly substantial collection of OGR’s that have the European genetics. For me the China lineage is where it is at. Teas, China’s and the very strong Hybrid teas are awesome and where I want to be. The Bermuda Roses are also amazing. Mosses have been also very strong growers for me and maintain cleanliness and I should consider expanding my collection of mosses. I have the two most fertile ones Nuits de Young and Quatre Saisons Blanc.

I know I want to do something to help make my hybrids cold hardier but have not really conceptualized a scheme as of yet. I have the European and Species specimens to attempt this but the exotic tropicals are so so NICE!!!

Basically I’m not sold on disease resistance being more worthy than aesthetic considerations. Disease pressure co-evolves with plants. If we want to eliminate disease pressure we need to create an environment where there is ridiculous amounts of species origin diversity available to everyone and all future roses are distinct vigorous hybrids of multiple species. We have to go through an insane MASH-UP phase. That is what I believe. That is what I foresee.

[Spiritstonesilver]

If you can with strong confidence secure the Bracteata seeds of a diverse population and create a platoon of Bracteata’s here are the examples I want to make you aware of

Moores Bracteata Hybrid

“Muriel”
Blossom

Foliage

She would give pollen to this cross “Out of Yesteryear”

Rupert (Roseseek) Created these hybrids from Banskia (the leaves ):
IHTXLBXSG

L56-86-3

Within the banskia is the potential to create flower forms we have not seen before. These were Rippletoe’s

You should see if you can assemble a collection of the Clinophyla seeds.
Viru- an Indian Collective created a series of hybrids with a recently discovered China Rose that has not participated in rose hybrids up until this time called Five Yuan Temple Rose with this species.
They call this the “Nymph Series” I may have to acquire the species available from 1 US outfit here and attempt this cross myself. There is an entirely new rose blossom geometry in this species I just know it.

Ganges Nymph

Vaigai Nymph