I know it is “way back” there as far as progress in roses, but I love the Apothecary Rose for a number of reasons. For one thing, it does so well under very harsh conditions in this area. I’ve never had any success with germination, but this year I have an Floribunda x Apothecary in bloom for the first time. It is similar to the Apothecary “look” but is a bit larger with a very slight variation in the scent. I’d like to maintain that “look,” but have some rebloom. Is that possible in one more generation?
It should be possible if you’re willing to raise a fairly large number of self-seedlings. Crossing with another Floribunda or other rebloomer would be more certain, but you might not get so many with the “look”.
David Austin made similar crosses. His ‘Chianti’ came from ‘Dusky Maiden’ x ‘Tuscany’, and became the ancestor of some of his darker red and purple varieties.
“Way back” or not, it doesn’t hurt to revisit the ancestors of our garden roses now and again just to see if anything useful was lost along the way.
One of my very first crosses was with the Apothecary Rose (hereafter called “Apothecary”). I applied a mix of pollen from Morden Blush and Knock Out. At that time I was ignorant of the on/off genetic nature of rebloom, so I figured I’d try to counteract the once-blooming nature of Apothecary with some of the bloomingest roses I had.
I was inspired by the first generation of that cross. I loved the sturdy, shrubby quality of the plants. However, they died back to the ground each year and were unable to bloom in my climate. Determined to work with them, I picked my two favorites (based on health and habit) and dug them up to grow in pots and store inside for the winter. When pulled into the greenhouse, those two were able to bloom but proved to be prone to mildew and quite seed-sterile. I dumped them.
As the years went by, a few of the original seedlings survived and thrived in the field. Unfortunately they get a little blackspot, but they still have that tough-seeming quality. On a year with a mild winter or a winter with excellent snow cover they are able to bloom and are reasonably lovely. Last summer was one of their blooming seasons, so I made a lot of pollinations using Brite Eyes and some other pollens. I do have some seedlings coming up, but so far none have shown signs of juvenile bloom. Likewise, some other second generation seedlings I have in the field have not shown rebloom. I think some of them are open-pollinated seeds.
I think it is probably a numbers game. One should come up with a F1 Apothecary hybrid that is very fertile and makes a lot of viable seeds. Then cross, as Karl said, with another rebloomer and hope the look does not get too diluted in the result.
I just remembered this…I did raise a pretty large number of OP seedlings from these Apothecary F1’s some years back. The only rebloomers among them were quite runty and didn’t survive. I think Pierre has mentioned here that yes, there is a strong inverse correlation between rebloom and vigor. So to get a vigorous rebloomer from growing OP seeds of an Apothecary F1 might take thousands upon thousands of seedlings. However, the original partner that was crossed with Apothecary might make a difference in how the genes can combine, so don’t be discouraged by my speculation.
Let’s keep trying!
Thank you so much for your responses! This Apothecary F1 was hardy to the tips here in NW Indiana, after a particularly brutal winter. I don’t find the scent of apothecary to be as amazing as some sources indicate. However, I do love to rub the buds and smell that pine-like? cedar? kind of smell. The hybrid has regained that, whatever it is.
The Fragrant Year, Helen Van Pelt Wilson and Leonie Bell (1967)
“Apothecary Rose, credited with ‘exquisite’ fragrance, has only modest scent. However, we treasure it for the quality noted centuries ago by Parkinson, “…the sent hereof is … not comparable to the excellencie of the damaske Rose, yet this Rose being well dryed and well kept, will hold both colour and sent longer than the damaske, bee it never so well kept.”
And another thing:
Scharlachglut [Poinsettia x Alika] is another possible mate for your hybrid. ‘Alika’ is also called Rosa gallica grandiflora, and is said to be even hardier than typical Gallicas.
You should get a copy of R. glutinosa.
I do love to rub the buds and smell that pine-like? cedar? kind of smell.