I now have about 300 seedlings in my basement nursery and noticed one that is totally unlike any I have ever seen in all the years I’ve been hybridizing.
It is an OP seedling from Kim Rupert’s Lynnie, An offspring involving 77-361 and Orangeade(?). 77-361 is a thornless tetraploid with rugosa, absynnica, and carolina in its pedigree.
This seedling just recently put out its first set of true leaves and they are variegated red, green and cream colored. The red part of the leaf is a very bright “true” red, not the reddish tint you see so often in “red leaved” roses.
The affect is quite striking and the differentiation between colors is very acute, not blending into each other.
Keep in mind the leaf is tiny, only about one eighth inch across and only slightly longer. The next set is beginning to sprout and is showing the same striking red color.
If this trait holds and the seedling survives I think it would be totally unlike anything ever before. I wonder if it could be a mutant or maybe has some deficency that causes the affect, but it sure looks cool. I sincerely hope it grows big enough to get a photo of so I can post a pic to show you folks, but at this stage it would be pointless to try to gat a good photo of it that would show the details. I’m keeping my fingers crossed.
Randy, strange-- I got something similar with a cross of 77-361 and Queen Elizabeth. Maybe it is from 77-361? But then again it may be the soil. I have a seedling of Belle Isis x Compte de Chambord that seems to be two different developing roses on a stem. It is from the same soil. It is the same exact rose that looked like a clover. Seems like an odd mutation thing-- hope it survives. But right now I am concerned that there is something in the soil that shouldn’t be there.
Randy, I’ve only seen that happen in other plant genera to date - but it sounds like you may have something very special, at least for its foliage. Pamper that one, and keep an eye on it!
If it’s somatic variegation (sounds like it from the clear colors), you can probably expect the red color to fade to at least a medium/light pink in mature foliage or at warmer summer temperatures. The white regions of the leaf may be susceptible to burning in strong sunlight, so be careful later on.
Also, and this might be a trivial matter to you, but if it does happen to end up with orange flowers from ‘Orangeade’ and has white/cream, pink, and green leaves, it might just be a mutant monster that completely clashes with itself Mother Nature herself might shriek in horror… This may be one of those rare cases where you should consider praying for tastefully pink flowers! Lol.
Yes, I too wondered if it might be a somatic mutation like some of the other variegated houseplants. If it keeps the trait into adulthood it will be really interesting to see how it looks on a mature bush. Even if the flowers are only moderately attractive it would be a novelty.
It is way too soon to start getting too excited about this little curiosity, I’ve had many occasions where I had something that I thought was exciting where the seedling turned out to be poor or worse yet, died early.
It would also be interesting to take root cuttings from such a plant when it’s mature and see if the trait is still present, or if it is only in one or two layers of tissue as some sports are. If so plants grown from root cuttings would likely not exhibit the trait.
Just this winter I had a twin seed and was excited at the possibility of a haploid version of a tetrploid garden rose, But it proved to be terribly malformed and weak so I discarded it.
I love this hobby! Sometimes the wondering and wishing is as fun as the actual results!
The second set of leaves is opening up and it also is showing the same trait! this is so cool.
I was afraid that with the reduced amount of chlorophyl the tiny thing would be too weak to survive, but while it is not particularly vigorous,it is not particularly weak either. I wonder if the red color is a type of chlorophyl? I know there are many red leaved plums and such that photosynthesize just fine, so maybe this one is like them?
Any thoughts on this? Some of you more educated types out there could shed some light on this issue I am sure. David, Joan, any comments?
I have a branch of Renae that for some odd reason consistently put out some verigated leaves. I got it from Sequoia. I think I have enough material to propogate. If anyone is really good at rooting, you can have all the cuttings. I posted pics a few months ago, but nobody seemed intrested in them.
Here is a photo that I posted to the web a couple years ago of a seedling that have variegated foliage. As Stefan mentioned above, the lighter areas of the foliage did burn. I had hoped that it would be a transmissible mutation, but since the whole plant was not completely variegated in the same way (some parts had only 2 colors of green and others plant parts were completely normal) I didn’t think that it would be useful in breeding, so I ultimately ended up discarding the plant.
I’m not sure if any of you grow this, but ‘Verschuren’ is an old, incredibly healthy Hybrid Tea that has very strikingly variegated foliage, especially in the spring. I’ve often planned to do an OP test with it to see if it would transmit the variegation to seedlings, but I’ve never gotten around to it. I assume not, however, since I’m pretty sure my plant came from Sequoia and–of course–Ralph Moore would have accomplished it were it possible.
Variegation often is brighter in the spring, becoming more subdued as the creams/whites in each leaf that survive the strong sunlight slowly attain minty or pea soup green tones. This is generally only characteristic of splashed-on types of variegation; leaves solidly edged or centered with other colors than green tend to be more stable throughout the growing season. There are of course likely to be exceptions to this, but they’d be significantly uncommon.
As for passing variegation, I’ve had my share of variegated plants pop up in my years of gardening; only once did such a plant (an annual) grow to bear seed and give me an opportunity to observe the next generation. What happened was interesting - the seedlings were either solid green or albino (and the latter died shortly after germination). If I’d had more time and patience, I might have separated out the solid green seedlings and allowed them to self, to see where inbreeding would take them or even to create a variegated strain (like the Alaska nasturtiums). Whether this would have actually occurred, I don’t know; it’s entirely possible that the albino seedlings arose from all-white tissue and were clones of that, and that the same was true for the green ones. The method of seed production may not have been sexual.
It would be a worthwhile experiment to try with Verschuren; if it will produce viable seed from self-pollination, it’s something that ought to be done. Definitive results are far from guaranteed, but clearly you should give it a try!
Henry and Stefan–Verschuren is definitely a truly variegated plant. I’ve never found much written about it, though Gregg at Vintage says it was released in 1904 and he knows more about such things than anyone else I’ve ever met. I came across it not as a hybridizer but as a collector of rare Hybrid Teas (I have hundreds of varieties of endandered, older Hybrid Teas in my garden, some of which, like the exceptional Soeur Therese, have proven excellent parents over the past several years). But, as everyone around here understands, hybridizing has turned into the most addictive part of the hobby for me now.
We have really hot summers down here in Atlanta so the sun, as you point out Stefan, mutes Verschuren’s variegation at times (though it is always obvious and present). And we never get really red new growth later in the season like we do in the spring, which makes the variegation especially pronounced. I have a slide or two in one of my rose society talks but, alas, no scanner right now so I can’t post a picture. It does set seeds prolifically, so this year I’ll actually try to follow through and plant a few hundred seeds or so and see what happens, especially once those seedlings are old enough to cross among themselves. Fortunately I have lots of space at my parents’ farm where all my rose work takes place. It’s a long shot, but then, as anyone who hybridizes knows, long shots have the potential to provide the most fun.
It’s interesting that you mentioned crossing the Verschuren seedlings among themselves (especially if none show variegation). I would highly recommend taking your experiment that far, in light of my experiences with variegated peppers. Several years ago, I crossed a variegated hot pepper (Capsicum) with a bell pepper. None of the F1 offspring showed any variegation. The F2 (from selfing the F1) are segregating about 1/4 variegated plants to 3/4 normal. The variegated trait seems to be inherited as a recessive in this case.
So, just in case Verschuren is self-incompatible (all seedlings would then be outcrosses to normal), I would definitely want to go farther than F1, as you mentioned.
Just this weekend I harvested a few handfuls of ripe hips off the plant, so I have plenty of seeds to work with. I’ll let everyone know if anything interesting turns up (a couple of years from now, in the F2 generation, as you point out Tom, but then I assume we are all among the most patient people in the world or we wouldn’t be doing this).
Mother Nature herself might shriek in horror… This may be one of those rare cases where you should consider praying for tastefully pink flowers! Lol.