I thought I’d list these together and not post a bunch of messages. Anyone use these ‘Carefree Beauty’ descendants in breeding?
‘J. J. Audubon’
‘Mother of Pearl’
‘Roemer’s Hip Happy’
I have two OP Old Baylor seedlings from 2009. Both are small semi-double white blooms. One was plagued with white fly early in the season but I blasted them off with water and have not had a problem since. I do not spray.
In my experience, most of the Pioneer Series of roses seem to be female sterile and need to be used as pollen donors. The Antique Rose Emporium actually lists which ones set hips (not many). I played with them for a year or two but their hardiness was extremely uncertain this far north and, based on their lineage, I didn’t even try to plant them outdoors. I simply grew them in pots for a few years while I experimented with them. I tried several of the roses you mentioned. Cole’s Settlement does act as a weak female. It is particular about what it crosses with and it does not produce a lot of seeds. I have one seedling remaining from the crosses I attempted. Old Baylor sets hips but none of my crosses took. I don’t think I even tried it as a male as I was hoping it would be a viable female. Audubon is really attractive in a wild sort of way but as I recall, it did have some blackspot issues and I already had too many bright pink singles. I’m pretty sure that it was Gideon Lincecum that had major mildew issues here and I parted with it before the end of the first season. I did not try Pioneer Spirit or Roemer’s Hip Happy. Star of the Republic was a nice rose, although it did break down with blackspot later in the season. I got a few seedlings from it as a pollen donor but I sacrificed a lot of hardiness in the seedlings and even crossed with hardy parents, they barely survive. My favorite Pioneer rose was FJ Lindheimer. It does get some blackspot and it can pass that tendency on to seedlings, but the tendency is fairly moderate most years–it is possible that there is some broad resistance to blackspot in FJL. Right now it does have BS but it still retains about 65% of its leaves. It is the only Pioneer rose I have kept. I think that, in general, they are nice roses but not suited to my environment–which should not have come as any surprise. Like you, I was intrigued by the use of Carefree Beauty.
Thank you both. Thanks Julie for your detailed experiences. I’m a bit disappointed to learn that they are mostly female sterile as I was hoping for the opposite. And, the ones you mention that are female fertile you had some disease issues. That’s unfortunate as I was intrigued by the use of Carefree Beauty as you mentioned. My area seems to be a hot bed for BS as the years go on so I’m looking for extreme resistance in a rose to use as a breeder. Thanks again!
Hmm, I guess the second best seedling I have to date is from ‘Carefree Beauty’. It’s essentially CB in white form. Perhaps a touch more floriferous. Same loose, floppy habit, decent fragrance and disease resistance. I haven’t seen it make any OP hips yet though. CB seedlings are wildly variable and most always pink I worked with CB for a couple of years and then gave it away after it got too big.
Have you used your rose as a pollen parent yet? I had a Carefree Beauty OP seedling named ‘Lynne Elizabeth’ that was much like CB but had a bit of some peach tones to the color. It would never set OP hips for me. I just assumed that because CB is so fertile that any F1 would be as well. After no having CB for several years I just ordered it and should have her next week. Look forward to using her next spring.
No, I haven’t done anything with it yet. I am considering putting it on my Knockout x Oklahoma seedling though. I would be curious to see what the two different habits would create. The KOxOK is strongly upright and stiff while the CB seedling is lax and loose. Also, judging from this years seedlings, I will largely loose most of the disease resistance and vigor on the F2 from KOxOK - so it would seem to be a good way to reinforce some of that. Both have decent fragrance but the best I could hope for is a fragrant, white semi-double and I’m afraid once I go white it will be hard to get away from that. I have also considered back crossing KOxOK with KO again or obtaining DKO or Home Run for a back cross to reinforce disease resistance (for yet another generation/F3 cross). Decisions, decisions…
The foliage on KOxOK is absolutely beautiful. I also think most anything I throw on it will “take”. But I also like the idea of it being red because it will make getting other colors (like yellow) out of it easier.
I didn’t show it well but the CB seedling has a loose “grandiflora” (if you can call it that) habit… IOW it has six blooms all on one (main) stem (with a lot of lateral branching). I moved the other branches out of the way to illustarte this but it also has decent branching from the base as well (about eight so far). The top hasn’t filled in too good but I expect with age that it would eventually. Definitely a “shrub” rose (vs an upright “hybrid tea” form).
It sort of only makes sense to cross my two best seedlings… and I would be curious to see how the two different habits would turn out. I think as an added bonus I would get some decent disease resistance out of such a cross… the drawback would be a semi-double white.
I was given a Carefree Beauty this winter here in OZ to do some work with as I have never seen it. Looking at its first generation crosses on HMF, CB bloom structure looks quite dominant. The only offspring that showed any radical change was that of Naga Belle. CB bloom Structure I do not mind, I bred a rose with similar structure called Groovy Thang and when flowering, blooms cover the bush making it look ok.
The cold tolerance in CB probably does not come into play here in Australia, as our temperatures are mild compared with Nth USA and Nth Europe, but its good health does. I think adding a few petals and tightning it up (does not need to be as tight like Naga Belle) would look good.
I told the fellow who gave me Carefree Beauty, that I would never see an open bloom the first year, giving him an idea how intesively it was going to be used.
I have lots of seeds in the fridge of Carefree Beauty X Baby Love, Carefree Beauty has lots of seedlings which have Mildew problems so Baby Love(which is mildew resistant) might give me a blackspot and mildew free seedling. I also used Lafter on Earthsong this year and have seeds of it in the fridge. My Lafter could be used as a climber here if I did not keep it pruned at 7 feet. Earth song is almost as disease resistant as Carefree Beauty here in South Louisiana.
Luckily I never had a mildew issue with CB but it’s good to know that there may be an issue there and I will take that into account when planning crosses. Thanks Patrick.