I’m looking at ‘Morden Blush’ as possibly the last breeder plant to order for next season but have been seeing mixed reviews on her healthy. I’d love to incorporate her hardiness into miniature lines that I have but not if she gets too much BS. I’m in an area that has a lot of BS. Can anyone comment on her health and if you know, what I might find in F1 if I use her. Thanks in advance.
Rob
Morden Blush is extremely BS-prone in my area. I was just discussing it with another breeder last night and we are both getting rid of the ones we have in our gardens. I used it for years in crosses and at most I have one or two seedlings that are “not bad”. The rose is tremendously popular at garden centers here but it won’t live up to its promise without spraying. In theory, such a cross could result in a nice plant as MB is compact, repeat blooming, and hardy, but given the susceptibility of most miniatures to BS, such a cross has very little likelihood of resulting in a healthy plant.
Thanks so much Julie for your observations. I came across some really mixed reviews on other sites but knew I would get the skinny here on the forum. You make an excellet point about BS in most minis and since MB has such a problem I don’t think she will work for my purposes. I’m a little disappointed as MB has such pretty blooms and she is so hardy. I’ll scratch her off my list. Thanks again.
Rob
Good decision, Rob. Beautiful, hardy, floriferous, and a blackspot nightmare.
Joe,
From my reading it seems that most? of the Morden roses have disease issues which is unfortunate. I grew several, not Blush, and all had BS issues. Do I remember reading somewhere that you suggested an alternative to MB…maybe a Buck rose??
Rob
How about Prairie Joy? It is at least as hardy as Morden Blush, has a nice old-fashioned bloom form, and sets hips. It does get a little BS late in the season in our area (i.e. now), but nothing I’d consider disfiguring or disqualifying.
Choice of breeders targeting disease resistance is always a compromise because no rose is immune to all diseases or even to most diseases.
The choice has to balance disease susceptibility against other target traits.
Hardiness is one of those target traits worth trading a bit of disease resistance for especially within the first several generations of a breeding project. The Morden roses seem tailor made for that purpose.
Betsy,
Thank you for the reply. I did look at PJ on HMF and found the bloom to be very pretty. It is a triploid so I wondered about fertility as a seed parent when combined with tetra pollen. Getting a bit of BS might keep it off my list though. I’m really looking for one that is pretty much bullet proof…much like Knock Out. I try to keep to that goal as I’m working with minis and that class has its own disease issues that I need to overcome. Thank again!
Rob
Have you considered John Davis?
Hello Paul. I actually had John Davis but pulled it recently. I couldn’t get any hip set and none of the crosses using pollen took. Also it was defoliated with BS…along with Westerland and Autumn Sunset which was very disappointing. I think I need something a little smaller in stature to combine with the minis I’m working with.
Thanks Paul.
Rob
This year, ‘John Davis’ was very hard struck with BS and almost totally defoliated in my gardens near Edmonton, Alberta, never before have I seen anything as such with this particular rose. I avoided using it in any of my crosses this summer.
That’s really surprising about Morden Blush and black spot. This was the most bullet proof, healthiest of the Morden clan here. Guess I should be glad it “refused all of my advances”? LOL! Kim
Hi Rob, I’ve given up on the Morden roses for disease reasons, but I do have a couple of seedlings kicking around that have Morden Sunrise as a parent. Someone posted a few months ago about the Morden roses and how they achieve their winter hardiness reputation. If memory serves me, they tend to die back to the snow line or ground but they have tremendous vigor and rapidly re-grow in the spring. Please forgive me if I mis-remembered…
Have you considered using Prairie Celebration with your minis? It is a L83 offspring, works well as both a seed and pollen parent, has great winter hardiness and disease resistance in Guelph. I have a couple of mini-moss seedlings from it that will be going through their first winter this year.
Westerland was bad news for me as well. Never tried Autumn Sunset. My experience with the Buck roses is that they have disease issues up here, with the exception of Carefree Beauty.
Liz
I had recommended Prairie Star as a sub, but it is not bulletproof. Mine got some blackspot, but are worlds better than all of the Mordens save Prairie Joy (if that can be considered a Morden.)
I would recommend sticking with Bill Radler’s roses if you’re looking for bulletproof. He has quite a few releases besides the Knock Out series. Even if a rose of his is not completely resistant it will carry with it years of breeding focused on resistance, which should reflect in the offspring.
David Z speaks highly of Morning Magic’s combination of cleanliness and hardiness. Brite Eyes, apparently, has broken down with a new strain of blackspot, but might still be an excellent breeder. It is one of the parents of Sunny KO.
Because I have a nursery business, I can order from Greenheart, a wholesale supplier. They’re the only place I can seem to find Jim Sproul’s First Impression. They also have the minor Radlers, so I’m picking up some of those as well. They carry a lot of tantalizing roses, and my excuse is that I have to meet the minimum order… I’d be willing to sell some of these to offset the costs of my breeding obsession and to help prevent that obsession from burying my family business.
Kim…my very first successful cross was Blush x Baffin. One of the seedlings is extremely hardy and floriferous, and I’ve often wondered how it would do with less BS pressure in a climate zone 5 or warmer. Anyone is welcome to cuttings, but you’ve been warned. I’m keeping another seedling, though it is a once bloomer that defoliates, because it is the first compact yet basically cane hardy rose that I’ve seen, growing only about 2 feet tall. Yes, you have to butcher those poor MB blossoms to find the stigmas, and can only hope there are some left to pollinate.
Rob, I certainly recommend patience in your quest to bring disease resistance to the minis. Having seen most of my Prairie Joy x Knockout/RKO seedlings break down far worse than either parent I realize it is a long row to hoe to even maintain disease resistance.
Joe,
Thank you for your comments. My purchase of KO and DKO was my entre into the world of Radler roses. I also just purchased ‘Carefree Sunshine’ and should receive that soon.
Yesterday I received ‘Oso Easy Peachy Cream’ and ‘Oso Easy Paprika’ in the mail. Soon to arrive is ‘Carefree Beauty’, Caramel Fairy Tale’: (‘Rugelda’ x (‘Westerland’
Hi Rob,
I don’t think it has good fertility as a seed parent, but ‘Home Run’ has been SUPER healthy here in Maryland. And it seems to be passing on a lot of that health (when used as a pollen parent).
Good luck to you in your plans. I look forward to seeing where they take you.
Tom
Thank you Tom. I figured I’d need to use KO, DKO and Paprika as pollen parents and that’s ok. I have some good miniatures to use as seed parents. Since ‘Royal Edward’ is already a semi-mini that one will get used heavily next season. Thinking about all of the potential crosses and outcomes keeps me awake at night. 
Thanks again.
Rob
IMO, ‘Home Run’ also passes on a very awkward (leaning towards genuinely homely) shrub architecture. I have stopped using it for that reason. Too bad, as it is very healthy here as well 
Paul,
Because HR is a single I passed on purchasing it. I’m not familiar with HR’s architecture but saw that it’s described on HMF as rounded tidy habit. What don’t you like about the shrub architecture?
Rob
Breeding for disease resistance is a lot like the old joke we learned back in physical chemistry class.
You can summarize the three laws of thermodynamics as follows:
You can’t win; you can only break even.
You can only break even at absolute zero.
You can’t reach absolute zero.
A case in point is one of the roses being discussed in this thread. I was told by a major PNW grower that they had to toss thousands of plants of it that had developed systemic mildew infections. The same thing could happen at any time to any of the current shining stars.
I’m not arguing against trying for absolute zero, but I do advocate a different standard than absolute immunity. I think we should be aiming for cultivars that can tolerate all the major diseases while expressing only mild symptoms.