Kim,
What is the rose called?
“The greenish-white, thornless Rugosa-mini hybrid that sported to a deeper yellow was rather impressive.”
Did it get introduced? Do you have it?
Daniel
Hi Daniel, nope, never introduced. I HAD both the original seedling and the sport, but that was several years and a thousand or so roses ago. They were a cross of Golden Gardens x Rugosa. Perhaps Paul Barden can remember the exact particulars. All of that information is still stuck on a frozen hard drive. What was introduced or slated for introduction, or used regularly as breeders are on the master list which I can access. Kim
I’m really excited Ralph Moore provided Dr. Bryne with his germplasm to keep it maintained and helping to advance the understanding of rose genetics. My hope is that there can be enough financial stream to allow it to be effectively maintained over time. The economy sure is tight for roses and producers now and I’m fearful it may be difficult if the funding needed to eventually maintain the material needs to be self generating. I trust with some creativity it will be possible. Even without some big contracts with nurseries to produce roses that may be super popular, hopefully other opportunities like naming rights for particular roses given to people or organizations, etc. can help. Hopefully there are roses that would be entered into the AOE and AARS trials to give them greater market credibility as they are tested across multiple locations and earn awards.
Ralph Moore was an incredible pioneer integrating diverse rose backgrounds and has impacted the modern rose as we know it (minis, stripes, modern moss roses, Hulthemia hybrids, etc.).
It has taken me way tooooo long but just wanted everyone to know I have uploaded pictures to HelpMeFind of the Ralph Moore Roses from the Test Garden in Texas. I apologize for the quality of the pictures, I am no Paul Barden when it comes to photography skills, it was a bright sunny day and some of the pictures are quite washed out. However, I uploaded them anyway, just so folks could see how full and healthy they looked. Please keep in mind that these roses were in full sun and they had all survived the horrendous “Summer of 2011”. Other than regular watering these roses received no special care (spraying). These are quite a testament to the heat and drought tolerance of Mr. Moore’s roses. I do have pictures of some roses from Ralph Moore that are not listed on HelpMeFind.
Thanks Joan! What roses do you have photos of that aren’t on HMF? I have the Sequoia Breeding List and can add what’s needed. Thanks.
Kim,
Give me a day or two and I will send you a list by private message.
Joan
Joan or Kim, how does one navigate to HMF to see these photo’s if it is not to much trouble.
David, the easiest way is to go to HMF, click on “recent” then “photos” and you’ll see the latest photos uploaded. Joan’s are some of the newest, so that’s the easiest way to find them. Here’s a link. HMF recent photos
Thanks for the photo’s Joan, they are great. I have written a wish list from them, if they ever get to the other side of the world(Australia). If I could get hold of Julie Link i would pay hamsonly, it is to die for in my opinion.
Kim another thanks to you for more computer lessons.
You’re welcome David. It appears you need to find someone who grows Julie Link and let’s see about getting seed sent… Not exactly the same, but close enough for government work and a whole lot less trouble!
Have Julie Link, but no hips at the moment. Just pruned. I actually don’t recall seeing any hips on her, however. But if I get some next season, you can have.
See? Problem half solved! Thanks, Kathy.
Kim has beaten me Kathy to say thank you. But I think there is nothing like another thank you, so thanks Kathy and lets hope it sets hips.
Memory time Kim, can you recall if it sets hips or have you not seen it growing at Mr Moore’s nursery ?
Does anyone live or work at, below, just a thought when it is again in flower
Texas AgriLife Research (AgriLife), a component of the Texas A&M University System.
Joan, I have been through all the photo’s that you placed on HMF, below are the one’s which i think are stand outs.
Apricot Twist
Born Free
Golden Horizen
Little Eskimo
Peppermint Parfait
Snow Twinkle
Sweet Chariot and no I have not left out Julie Link.
Hi David!
I actually work for the rose breeding program at Texas A&M University.
I haven’t been registered for this forum for very long, so that’s why I haven’t been responding to anyone’s comments/questions about Ralph Moore’s/Dr. Basye’s roses.
Currently, most of the roses are ‘semi-dormant’. We don’t get truly cold enough for them to go completely dormant.
So…currently no blooms on ‘Julie Link’.
We did some limited pollinations on Julie Link last year and got around 50% set with less than 100 seeds…
Next month (Feb), we’ll start moving roses into the greenhouse to force them for pollinations. If I have enough plants/flowers, I can save a few flowers for open pollinations. However, that means you’ll be depending on me to remember in a few months time that I need to keep them “un-pollinated” and save them to ship your way later. (And I have a boyfriend that swears that I would loose my head if it weren’t attached!)
You may want to know that Julie Link has not been doing so well in our display beds (in College Station, TX). It is prone to black spot and needs to be sprayed…
Of course, if you don’t have the same strains of black spot that we do, then it might not be an issue for you.
-Nat
I would be curious to know, Nat, which of Mr. Moore’s and Dr. Basye’s roses you would consider to have performed most impressively in your display beds this past year.
And thanks muchly to you and your colleagues for keeping them going! It is good to know that their legacies and collections are in good hands.
Hi Philip!
Only Mr. Moore’s materials are in the display beds. Most did well, as long as they were sprayed. One of the reasons we placed many of Mr. Moore’s materials in those beds is because we knew we’d have to protect them. (We’ve had previous experience with his stuff in our field trials.)
We currently have ~250 of his varieties/selection in the display beds, but I’m always adding more.
Given that number, it’s not practical for me to list them all here. It may be easier for me to tell you which ones did not do well… (Let me know if you’d like that list.)
Dr. Basye’s materials have never needed any special care. They are growing happily in the field, and most are huge!
Nat, thanks for the reply about “Julie Link”. I will somehow remind you, not sure how yet, maybe contact your boyfriend and get him to remind you(only joking).
As for the black spot, it does not concern me, as you can see by my signature where I live and to add to that I am in the country, conditions for BS are very low.
Again thanks Nat.
Welcome, Natalie. It’s nice to see you here. When you get settled I hope you can fill us in on your breeding program.
Zone 5b/6a on the southern rim of Pioneer Valley MA.
Hi Natalie, have you been able to identify Dr. Basye’s material you have growing there? David had told me several times the collection was mostly dead when he received it and nothing was labeled. It would be quite helpful to determine which rose is in the trade as “Basye’s Thornless/Commander Gillette/Basye’s Legacy” as Dr. Basye personally identified the same rose as both 65-626 AND 77-361.
David Neumeyer visited him some years ago and Dr. Basye handed him a sucker, identifying it as 65-626 (Commander Gillette). He later sent material to The Huntington of The Probable Amphidiploid and 77-361, which I propagated from there and which Ashdown sold. Paul Zimmerman and I coined “Basye’s Legacy” to differentiate between what was passed around as “Basye’s Thornless” and what he identified and sent as 77-361. I have grown David’s plant; the one passed around as “Basye’s Thornless” as well as the one I collected from The Huntington as 77-361 and they are identical. Whatever they are, they ARE the same rose. Which one it is, is the question.
David, yes, I saw Julie Link many times in the nursery. I paid attention to it because Julie is a lovely lady who took very loving care of Ralph; the Link family were valued friends of Ralph’s and Julie used to pick him up for church every Sunday morning, then take him to lunch afterward with her family. She was more of a grand daughter to him than any family member. The rose rooted and grew easily, flowering frequently, but it never impressed me as something I wanted to grow or breed with. There were frequently hips on both the plants on the sale tables, the stock plants and the larger plants grown in the open ground. It never attracted me for several reasons. Rust is an issue here in Southern California and many of his Bracteata hybrids (and Rugosa hybrids) are afflicted by it. Julie Link is, also. Bracteata hybrids are notoriously difficult to get any color intensity in, and they fade dreadfully. Julie Link suffers this indignity, also.
Ralph created her out of Peach Halo and Out of Yesteryear, both of which I grow. The former simply as a curiosity and because of its museum piece value. It isn’t a vigorous nor particularly good plant. It is out of (Anytime X Angel Face) X Gold Badge. Anytime is a “ho”. It will generally breed with anything, which is why it was used so intensely. Ralph selected it because the lavender “halo” was an adulterated red, so he set about increasing the size and intensity of the lavender area, then breeding and selecting those seedlings with increasingly less “blue” to the lavender. In that aspect, he succeeded, but he couldn’t eliminate the awful plant characteristics of Angel Face, which he used “because I had it”. The inclusion of Out of Yesteryear’s genes improved the quality of the plant, but enforced the rust proclivity and propensity to fade.
Two characteristics Ralph gravitated back to in his late years were the Anytime “shovel shaped petal” and the “Floradora Fade”. You can usually tell when Anytime is behind a rose by the petal shape. Ralph showed me seedlings many years ago, stating it had taken him thirty years to get rid of what he didn’t want. I teased him, asking him how long he thought it would take him to eliminate that awful Anytime shovel shaped petal. He seriously responded, “Why would I want to?” The other is what I teased him about for many years, the “Floradora Fade”. You can also generally tell what came out of 0-47-19 by the Floradora pumpkin orange and orange-pink which fades rather quickly to a particularly unattractive shade. We’d walk through the seedling greenhouses while he asked my opinion of various seedlings and I would often comment, “Floradora Fade” to indicate the color wasn’t stable, and often not really that attractive.
For what it is and what it represents, Julie Link is an OK rose. Due to its being so double, the Anytime petal shape is used to good effect, but it still doesn’t attract me. Though it doesn’t have any 0-47-19 (hence, Floradora) behind it, the color is very reminiscent of those he coaxed from Floradora and it fades much, very quickly, to shades I personally don’t find attractive and which I don’t wish to include in any seedlings I create. I don’t want to introduce the Peach Halo, nor the Bracteata issues into my seedlings, so I didn’t keep Julie Link. Not that she couldn’t be used by someone else in a different climate with good results, but she just wasn’t one I found potentially desirable for ME to move forward with.
Now, if you look at Gina’s Rose or My Stars, those have traits I want in my seedlings. Unfortunately, they are both half Playboy, which is a pretty awful rose in my climate. Both are very healthy, heavily flowering and thornless here, but the rust issue from Playboy is back there, ready to push out in seedlings, so I chose not to maintain either of those. Both can easily be used well here as landscape plants, but not for me to breed with. I have maintained Out of Yesteryear and Out of the Night (his best Bracteata seedling ever for my climate) as well as Muriel because of what they represent. I wish I could find a plant of Huntington Red Bracteata, not for the ungainly, devilishly thorny plant, but for the “old liver” red color which actually had depth, intensity and fragrance to it. While I doubt I would use any of his Bracteata line because of the issues engineered in them from their foundations, I respect and enjoy them for what they took to create and because a dear friend and playmate created them. I fear for their loss, so have given them places here, at least for the foreseeable future, in case someone “discovers” their existence and seeks to grow them. Ralph wasn’t as put off by their fading because he knew how greatly improved they were over the many which preceded them, and he had six acres, additional hands and limitless water with which to maintain them. Most of the time, his climate and conditions didn’t foster the rust (or even much black spot) issues mine at the time, and my current ones do, so he found them perfectly acceptable. Not to diminish his accomplishments a bit. He tamed Bracteata into continuously flowering, fragrant, controlled plants, even as small as Star Dust, in few generations and relatively little time. It took many thousands of unsuccessful seedlings and much space, but he did it. If one had to be selected as the Bracteata “masterpiece”, in my opinion and in my conditions, it would have to be Out of the Night.
The original seedling languished in the same spot in the same greenhouse for several years. Toward the end, when we knew the days were winding down, I made my traditional rounds through the nursery to check on my “old friends” there. That plant still sat where it had for years, only this time it was brilliant yellow, all of it, every piece, like someone jaundiced by liver issues. I brought him to the plant and begged him to please propagate it before it was lost. Even solid yellow, the plant had several beautiful, white flowers on the three gallon plant, all full of the “peach” fragrance we’d come to expect from these hybrids. He set to having it replicated and our next visit, a few months later in early spring, he proudly displayed a flat of small, deep green, four inch pots in bud and bloom. He said every cutting rooted “right down the line”. Each grew beautifully in the greenhouse and flowered with quite large flowers for the plant size, each pure, unstained “virginal white” and looking all the world what you’d expect a perfect white English rose to look like. Ralph, Jim Delahanty and I stood there marveling over how beautifully that plant had responded when Ralph asked what to call it. Jim offered, “Out of the Night”, the title of the first poem he’d ever memorized. Ralph liked it. That was also when he asked what to call the huge, red on red Hulthemia hybrid. He liked my suggestion of “Roses are Red”.
I don’t know how we’d get Out of the Night over seas, but if we could, I honestly think this one will show itself to be one of, if not his best selection from the Muriel line. It propagates very easily; grows perfectly own root; flowers heavily from newly rooted, small plants; remains fairly compact and small, growing quite well in decently insulated pots of suitable size and produces the most delicious “fresh peach” scent of the bunch. Of course, your mileage may vary. It was selected in a fairly arid environment and has grown most successfully in fairly arid environments. Cold, wet, too foggy may show issues not yet seen. Just chalk it up to the legendary story of Pernet’s response when asked about the black spot with his Pernetianas, “What black spot?” The identical occurrence of when Ralph was told about the rust on his Rugosas, “What rust?” Neither had demonstrated those issues for their respective “fathers”. Only Ralph finally experienced the rust a few years later when his climate changed enough to cause the enormous plants in the ground to express the issue. Kim
Dr. Basye’s materials have never needed any special care. They are growing happily in the field, and most are huge!
Natalie, Basye’s roses were developed in Texas, were they not? This is interesting to see how they would be so much better adapted to that Texas climate, whereas Moores’ were developed in a more northwest-coastal climate and might not as readily adapt, or at least need a little protection. As desirable as it is to be readily adaptive to many climates, many have their niche. Forum participants, what are some of the most universally adaptive roses out there? The Knock outs, which do very well over much of the USA, really are terrific here with a little spraying.