I remember it from the discussions we have had on this forum before. Here is one from Henry Kuska.
HI Kim, I need to make up a HMF page for the LTXCD cross.
If you still have the original label for the cross it would help.
I can’t remember what it looks like. It’s got to be pink.
Once I get the page up please post a photo or two?
Makes me wonder what other stuff I’ve forgotten about.
BTW, try Mrs. Oakley Fisher for pollen. The seed almost never germinates.
Thanks, Robert
In 2009, I did 5 pollinations of R. virginiana with R. fedtschenkoana pollen. I had read about the difficulties of getting R. fed to cross with other roses (on this site). R. virginiana seems to have better affinity for modern roses than many species, so my thought was that a cross between the two might result in a hybrid that could more easily move R. fed genes into modern roses. To my surprise, every pollination took and produced many seeds, leading me to believe that I probably had R. virginiana self-pollinations, although I had also read that R. virginiana has a very low self-pollination percentage. Anyway, the seedling population was very mixed in characteristics and I believe that at least some are true hybrids. In fact, this cross proved so successful that it was almost frustrating–the cross was my number one producer of seedlings after a cold summer that resulted in greatly reduced germination numbers in general last spring. At the end of this season, I kept 11 seedlings that are being moved on. I would have kept more, but at only a few months of age, it is readily apparent that these seedlings have an awesome/terrifying suckering capacity and may become monsters. They are now in a root cellar for the winter, but I am really looking forward to seeing whether some of the seedlings can pass the R. fed repeat tendency on in another generation.
I’ll take a look tomorrow when I’m back out there in daylight, Robert. I have to FIND it in the pot ghetto. You have difficulty germinating Mrs. Oakley Fisher seed? She’s one of my first experiments twenty plus odd years ago to learn how to germinate seed and still selfs everywhere. I thought she was a fertile Myrtle! I used her with extra pollen in hopes of increasing the fertility of the seedling. It’s nearly impossible sometimes to get the DLFEDs to accept pollen and hold the hips, yet they will self like weeds.
That’s neat, Julie! It’s going to be very interesting seeing what they express. Congratulations!
Kim,
I also have two cuttings from some of your DLFED hybrids shared with another member that were in turn shared with me this past spring–I believe he asked you first before sharing. Anyway, they were newly rooted cuttings this past spring when I received them but they grew rapidly and the root systems of both had filled 1 gallon containers by this fall. As I recall, they both showed definite R. fed characteristics but also just a hint of what I assume is the Dottie Louise influence. They are also in the root cellar now but should be able to be planted next season–I was a bit more concerned about these as the hardiness may be a bit less than the pure species hybrids. I didn’t want to chance losing them the first winter. They should provide me with another R. fed line to work with. Once my seedlings become reproductive I will be happy to return your generosity and share pollen or cuttings with you if you are interested.
Kim, Avery told me he had a terrible time germinating Mrs. Oakley seed. Interesting it’s so easy for you.
I always intended to use it with something like ‘Playtime’ as I’ve heard it tends to produce washed out colors. I won’t have time to explore it now.
I hope you get to try some of your DLFED seedlings with the Cardinal Hume x R. damascenda ‘bifera’ seedling I sent your way. It sets hips.
It’s probably a function of heat with the seed germination. In the old garden, Mrs. Oakley would drop hips and self germinate. I’ve never had any issues with them coming up. I have Playtime and have tried it with the DLFEDs to see what if. The Hume X Damasacena seedling is flushing out and so far, just a touch of mildew. We’ll see what it does, thanks!
I had to cull a number of those C. Hume x R. damascena bifera seedlings early on for susceptibility to mildew.
What I kept were the best of the lot. Hopefully you can do some line breeding with it.
As you know the seedling that most resembles the pollen parent in terms of growth habit and foliage is only once flowering.
The blossom is another kettle of fish but there’s no doubt it’s a hybrid which makes it a quarter fed.
Kim,
CPDLFED has really great purple coloring on the foliage. Does this age to a blue? Very nice indeed. I looked at all of your seedlings and you have some great silver/grey/blue/purple foliage coloring on these. It’s fantastic that you were able to get some that repeat/continually bloom as well.
I don’t have any experience in grafting and don’t have a misting chamber. My luck with rooting using the bag method hasn’t been too successful either. If you have suckers available, of any with grey/blue/purple foliage, at some point I would love for you to keep me in mind. Food luck with all of the fedtschenkoana crosses you made. I hope great things come from some of them.
This has been a great thread. Thank you for all the information and links.
Thank you Rob! Yes, the cranberry new growth ages to the really blue one. It isn’t suckering and I don’t know if it will. Only two of the several 1-72-1DLFED are attempting to sucker. None of the HT DLFED seedlings are showing that tendency yet. I hope at least the blue one will. I haven’t tried rooting any of them. I moved this year from the mid desert to the inland side of the coastal mountains and the climate is SO different. I haven’t gotten the hang of what to do to make roses root, but hibiscus roots in pots in the shade! Fortunately, it’s hot and dry enough to prevent white fly, so they can be comfortably enjoyed.
I will attempt to root some of that one this winter using Mel Hulse’s Rose Rustler’s Tool Kit method. Fed. itself, refuses to root, requiring suckers instead. Hopefully, as this one isnt’ suckering, it will cooperate. I’ll be happy to keep you in mind. I love having these things grow other places. I can’t test for extreme cold nor extreme disease situations, but someone else, can. I’ve always tried to spread things around as far as I could for that reason, and to always have a bank from which to withdraw material when I mess up and lose something.
Thanks Mr. Barden, for archiving this easy and fun information!
Kim,
I was thinking of what you wrote last night and I was wondering if the difficulty re: fertility with R. fed. is climate based? I know that most Cinn. roses are not very Californian in nature. Most of them, from what I have seen, seem to thrive naturally in coved areas like the cove of a ditch, set into the nook of some random deciduous scrub trees/shrubs or at the edge of a forest, etc. My experience is mainly the US West (Iowa to Texas to Cali to Wash) though so I am not sure about the eastern species.
Rosa canina and Rosa multiflora are always easy to spot, other than theyre not native and theyre huge, because they look out of place and will set themselves pretty much anywhere they wish – like himalayan blackberries do, lol.
So I am wondering if R. fed would be more giving if used in its native locale or one that is similar to it.
Here is a quick synopsis from google:
"In general, Tajikistan’s climate is continental, subtropical, and semiarid, with some desert areas. The climate changes drastically according to elevation, however. The Fergana Valley and other lowlands are shielded by mountains from Arctic air masses, but temperatures in that region still drop below freezing for more than 100 days a year. In the subtropical southwestern lowlands, which have the highest average temperatures, the climate is arid, although some sections now are irrigated for farming. At Tajikistan’s lower elevations, the average temperature range is 23
Patrick,
Thank you for the link to Henry’s Carmenetta article!
Rob
Fedtschenkoana does set OP seed in my climate. The seed is small and the embryos are mostly dead or not happy to live, however just out of curiosity, I was able to germinate one seedling out of like 20 seeds (achenes) using simple embryo culture techniques without regard to any aseptic precautions.
That Fed. is a poor seed parent seems true, to be sure.
This is another article re: R. glauca/Carmenetta that I am sure some of you have seen a long while ago, but it might be useful to others.
“So I am wondering if R. fed would be more giving if used in its native locale or one that is similar to it.”
Why wouldn’t it be, Jadae? Most plants won’t even flower unless conditions to their liking can be created. Why should fruiting be any different? Of course, some are more sensitive (picky) than others while even others are just obstinate.
“From the scattered information I could find, it sounds like the area is alkaline with soils high in heavy metals and alkali minerals. It sounds like the climate is unpredictable in its precipitation, very cold or very hot, and randomly windy.”
Sounds a great deal like the Santa Clarita Valley! The canyon bottom I used ranged from heavy, smelly green clay to pure river bottom sand, interspersed with builder’s rubble. The only shade was from other plants installed in the garden. The wind was ever-present. Temperatures ranged from 15 degrees to 115 degrees F over the 18 years the garden existed. Water was highly alkaline, to the point of clogging any kind of nozzle used. Rainfall was unpredictable. There were years which had fewer than ten inches and at least two where residents in the planned community it resided in, measured up to forty inches in the canyon during extreme El Nino periods. I kept it watered twice weekly by hose. The plant grew like oatmeal on a two year old, suckering wildly anywhere it could get a foot hold. I deliberately chose a clay situation for it to see if I could keep it contained. Riight!
“Maybe the odd flowering pattern is for survival lol.”
Probably. If this flower isn’t available when pollinators are, surely the next one would.
“Also, it makes me wonder why the odd foliage color was retained. What exactly does blue-tinted foliage do for a plant? How does it interact with heat, cold, UV, etc?”
Silvery foliage acts like a sun screen or block, reflecting heat and light in their extremes. The blue foliage is a modified silvery-turquoise. Where it exists, those pigments and the genes creating them don’t exist so Nature may not have much use for what the seedlings express, but our Un Natural Selection preserves them. the silver foliage has been maintained for eons. Massaging those genes with a new set couldn’t replace them, just massage them. Perhaps, the blue foliage also prevents over heating of the leaf surface in extreme heat/light? It IS lighter and more reflective than the traditional green. There are a number of seedlings out back with dark foliage, most in shades of deep crimson and purples and many of them literally fry on extreme days.
“I wonder if the odd-scented blooms are meant to attract non-bee type pollinators?”
Probably, more like carrion insects, like Stapelia or something. Or, perhaps the linseed scent is more persistent than something more sweetly scented? Could it carry further on the air, lasting longer to attract its pollinator?
The plant frequently set hips, but they were most often empty. The one seed I did obtain from a hip tagged as a deliberate cross, failed to germinate. I’m glad it did. Using it for pollen on a “Ho” made knowing they were hybrids a no-brainer.
Small detail, but the linseed oil scent of R. fedtschenkoana isn’t that unique. Some find it noxious, but others love the scent and claim it adds depth and complexity when combined with other scents. Hugonis, webbiana, Pteracantha and Maigold all have linseed oil scents. I try to remember to add it to HMF when I find it, which is not infrequently, but it’s not as easy to remember to note a fragrance as the characters I can photograph.
Kim – another good method for rooting things around here is the Walmart bin method. Go buy the tallest Walmart storage bin you can find that has a translucent lid and sides. Poke some holes in the bottom (for drainage) and then place square 3" plant pots in it filled all the way up with builders sand (from Home Depot, $3 for 50 lb). Stick your cuttings in the damp (but not soaking) builders sand – I do use rooting hormone on them. Leave the bin somewhere where the temps are warm, but not hot, such that you see condensation on the inside of the lid, but don’t cook your cuttings. In the winter, placing it on blacktop is good, because the asphalt collects heat and then keeps it warm at night and in the summer, on concrete in 50% shade. Or, you can just use one of those heating mats for seedlings in the winter. Close it up and check it every week or two. If I happen to be spraying fungicide anyway (i.e. rose show season) then I open it up and spray some of whatever in there, too. Works for me.
Kathy
Thank you, Kathy. It’s very much like Jeri and Clay Jennings’ tote method. I’m leaning toward treating them as I’ve been doing the hibiscus, leaving them uncovered in the shadow of the house over winter. The hibiscus took 100%. Covering the roses caused them all to rot. The lack of disease and easier rooting I do miss from the mid desert. Having to water religiously, I don’t!