The above are three roses I would love to try to add to my collection at some point, but have not found sources… There is one purported abyssinica in the country (though in CA weather, it bears little resemblance to the rugged, scrappy plants I’ve seen photographed in Somalia). Basye’s presumed amphidiploid (rugosa/abyssinica cross, and stated parent to the “real” Legacy) supposedly existed at one point at the San Jose Heritage garden, and I have reached out to them via the email address on their website, but have never gotten a reply. Doorenbos selection is one of the few scotch roses rumored to do well in the south, and incorporates a color and a line that I would really like to work with.
Philip, if Basye’s Abyssinica is honestly something you want to play with, Don Gers up in Santa Rosa likely has it. Worst case scenario, it appears to be the ONE rose which still grows at Franceschi Park in Santa Barbara, so pieces, perhaps suckers (?) may be available there. https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/franceschi-park
As far as I know, The Probable Amphidiploid still grows at The Heritage. Getting a response from them has been impossible for two reasons. The curator, Jill Perry, is a new grandma and has just returned from five-plus weeks in Australia and New Zealand. She went to the Heritage Rose Conference, or something like that. It is still shown in the interactive catalog for the Heritage Rose Garden. Is this something that’s worth obtaining and getting spread around? If so, and if there are others interested in it, I will see what I can do.
Doorenbos Selection is one which is available from Len Heller at Rosarium Scoticum. His contact information is here on HMF. Rosarium Scoticum He’s on Face Book that he is going to be selling suckers of MANY of his Spins and Hugonis types this spring. I know, “I HATE Face Book!”. Yes, it sucks in many ways, however, it has made MANY plants and pieces of information available no other avenue has. And, per the interactive catalog of the HRG https://fm70.triple8.net/fmi/webd#HRGMaster, two plants of it grow there, too.
I have a mature plant of Doorenbos Selection and can share some suckers.
Stephen
Kim, since moving to TX, the abyssinian rose has intrigued me. I realize that it is purported to be little more than the original R. moschata, but it is the southernmost rose species, from what I understand, and photos of it growing in the desert-like Simien mountains have left an impression on me. https://www.fotolibra.com/buyer/purchase/price.php?image_id=653534 I had already wanted to experiment with add’l members of the synstyllae, feeling that this group had a lot to offer, when I came across something about this species.
The fact that it is so little used, and that only one specimen purportedly even exists in the states, has only increased my curiosity about the plant. (Malcolm Manners photographed the rose several years back in Africa, but didn’t bring back any material, unfortunately.) Yes, I would love to get some seed or other material of this species.
Having both the abysinian (porportedly) and rugosa in it, Basye’s probable amphidiploid (BPE) should be a fairly drought tolerant and healthy rose. I don’t claim to know how it will like the TX lowlands – rugosas aren’t too fond of our climate – but I would like to find out. Since it is unclear as to whether Basye’s Legacy has this hybrid in its ancestry, or if that one is just Commander Gillette under another name, I would like to work with BPE and see what it has to offer in and of itself. I cannot help but thing it is a hybrid that has a fair deal of potential to be mined, and being a fertile tetraploid from two strong diploid species…
Stephen, since you have Doorenbos, I feel compelled to pick your brain! What is your personal take on this plant, have you bred with it, and what kind of results do you get? If I may, I would love to take you up on your generous offer, and will plan on PMing you this week. THANK YOU!
Philip;
When the plant was very young I tried putting its pollen on ‘Innocence,’ the old HT (supposedly having R. hibernica in its family tree). The one plant that came out of that cross looked like a self-pollinated ‘Innocence.’ ‘Doorenbos Selection’ produces lots of pollen. Since my original attempt to use it I tried “hatching” some OP seedlings and I got 2 - 1 of which I successfully grew to maturity. See photo.
DS is healthy, has beautifully colored blooms, a long bloom period, produces lots of hips, and grows like you’d expect a Spin to grow - low and suckering. It grows nicely in my zone 8b, hot, humid climate. I gave a plant to a friend in FL and it’s bloomed for him.
Last year I started a new part time job and never got around to putting pollen on anything, but I expect to do better this coming year.
Stephen
I once put pollen of ‘Doorenbos Selection’ on a very double Rosa roxburghii. A hip formed. I got too anxious, and opened the hip to find a bunch of soft, green achenes. I don’t know if they were viable, and didn’t repeat the effort.
Perpetual Scots’ Roses have been around for a long time, but apparently never quite caught on. Conrad Loddiges and Son (1820) offered 134 double Scots’ roses, including ‘Perpetual’.
‘Golden Wings’ is a fine rose bred from ‘Ormiston Roy’, a sometimes repeat-blooming (mostly) Scots’ roses descended from ‘Harison’s Yellow’.
[Soeur Thérèse x (R. spinosissima altaica x Ormiston Roy)]
Someone could make another run at this sort of reblooming shrub by substituting DA for OR, and a single or semi-single, dark red HT for ‘Soeur Thérèse’.
Someone could make another run at this sort of reblooming shrub by substituting DA for OR, and a single or semi-single, dark red HT for ‘Soeur Thérèse’.
Why not Soeur Thérèse’ itself? I grew a handful of Soeur Thérèse’ OP, very very densely pigmented plants in both anthocyanins and carotenoids. Doorenbos Selection would give some disease resistance and Soeur Thérèse’ would give the color. Good luck getting the cross to work but if it did it could be the foundation of an empire. McGready built his painted roses on a Scots.
I still grow Dorenbos Selection but it struggles to mound up here, zone 5b/6a. The Soeur Thérèse’ OP were very tender though a couple made it two or three years before the winter got them. Golden Wings was growing in a protected nook at the Elizabeth Park Rose Garden near here but it never really did more than survive, just to give an idea of what to expect from the lot of these with respect to hardiness. Not a problem for Californians, of course.
This is very surprising. I first came to admire ‘Golden Wings’ in N.E. Kansas. It grew tall and bloomed well. It is even better in San Jose, CA.
One would think that Rosa altaica and a Scots’ rose hybrid would contribute a healthy dose of hardiness. Maybe it’s a matter of selection.
BTW, McGredy’s Hand-Painted roses came down from the gorgeous ‘Frühlingsmorgen’, an Altaica derivative. I saw maybe 3 or 4 hips on ‘Frühlingsmorgen’ on 3 very large specimens. In California, it yields many more hips. It also offers some later blooms, probably because it was frequently pruned back.
Karl