Questions on Starting A Gene Line....(kinda long, I apologize)

General Discussion
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Hi guys, resident naive teen-hybridizer again… Few things…

For the past fall I’ve been trying to plan out any ideas/goals for my fledgling breeding program. For this spring I am recieving Comtesse du Cayla, I think Arethusa, Canary Bird, and Paul Barden’s Marianne among some possible others I might have forgotten about. Being said I am not ordering anything else for a while after this since I have a lot of young plants and I’d like to see them mature some, see what thrives and what doesn’t here to see what would be good parents or worthy breeders in terms of health.

I’ve been trying to plan what I want to do and what crosses to make. I only tried my first true half hearted attempt at true hand pollination this past summer, I might have gotten something from my Roseraie de L’Hay which may or may not have have accepted pollen from Stanwell Perpetual pollen (that I received in the mail, thank you!) since I got a hip from the former, with good germination in terms of the seed coat cracking open, same with my own Queen Elizabeth OP, with the same SP pollen, except only one seed. Not sure I have any seedlings yet, need to check my seedling tray.

I’m really not sure what I want exactly, I’d like to work with apricot coloring, mostly since I adore yellow/apricot blends, but I do have health in mind, as well as wanting perhaps to build something influenced by the gallicas, since they are very healthy here and can lend some good disease resistance and we need more in commerce. Kind of contradictory I’m afraid. I probably should purchase Carefree Sunshine, Morning has Broken, and Sunny Knock Out…I’m kinda stupid for not having done that.

As for apricot coloring, currently I only have, Crepuscule or Buff Beauty or even Mutabilis and Plaisanterie to work with…adding Comtesse du Caya, possibly Arethusa, Marianne and Canary Bird in terms of anything yellow I guess in future years. I also have a young Hazeldean, but I have no idea how well it will grow here, it might be disease prone due to it’s parentage (the whole BS thing).

I guess what I’m saying I’m kind of stumped at where to start…I had an idea to find my own way to a hybrid like Paul’s Marianne, but I’m unsure if Crepuscule (my favorite) would be a good candidate for that. I just like yellow/apricot coloring and it’s disease resistance for a tea/noisette hybrid and while it’s a bit tender, an awkward grower and very slow to grow, I hear it is very fertile and can give some nice colors to it’s offspring.

These are the roses that I have that will have enough or maybe a few scarce blooms to possibly collect pollen from or lay pollen on next year judging by either their maturity or the occasional bloom seen last year:

Tuscany Superb

Henri Martin (maybe)

Buff Beauty (maybe)

Duchesse de Montebello

Carefree Beauty

Roseraie de l’H

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I have Leda and quite like the leaves. One thing about all the crosses with Leda you mention is none of them repeat, expect Duchesse if you are referring to the HT called Duchesse. If your goal is to make once flowering roses that’s fine (I love once flowering roses… great for introducing seasonality in a garden) but a lot of people don’t grow them because they want year round colour. I grow Henri Martin too and even though it is reported as being once flowering, here its flowering period is very long making it ‘look’ like it is repeat flowering. Mine has been floering for 2 months straight now (zone 9b). Henri Martin forms lots of OP hips here so might be worth a shot as a seed parent. I haven’t tried to germinate any of its seeds yet.

Roseraie de l’H

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Thanks for the speedy response! Golly, didn’t expect that.

Well, bluntly I would like to try to make apricot gallicas, or at least introduce the recessive gene in there among the old garden stock while maintaining a mostly gallica form, which seems to bring disease resistance. Does anyone know how Marianne does in breeding? That would make things much easier if she is. That really is a breakthrough that Paul Barden has made here.

Remonancy is not an issue, people wait for lilacs and mockorange and lilies, they can wait for once bloomers too. Plus Leda and Duchesse de Montebello bloomed for a good three weeks maybe? Not at all that bad.

Maybe I have two directions. On one side I do like the free blooming nature of the chinas/teas such as Smiths Parish and Mutabilis, Crepuscule and would love to have fun to see if they can produce even better, possibly hardier shrubs with their coloring, relative health, and blooms. Essentially make those hardier and stay healthy.

Mainly, my concern is disease here, a lot of roses defoliate/look horrible and people don’t know how attractive some bushes can actually be. I can tolerate probably 30% bs inflection, maybe even higher, but commercially, that really won’t get you a great plant, at least not so much anymore. People want Knockout roses and it’s relations. Either that or the misinformed buy HTs.

This is where my other idea comes in. Gallicas are over 200 + years old, and are disease free here, unlike many moderns, Henri Martin is clean too from what I can see, as is Leda to an extent (Damask crud, a type of BS I believe). Roseraie de l’H