I have been told that when selecting material to bud some climbers, such as "Climbing Iceberg’, that if you select material from shorter, non-climbing stems the resulting plants won’t climb. In this case it would appear that the plant has reverted back to its original parent from the sported climber.
What if the climber you have budded is not from a sport, but is from a seed raised climber and you bud it and it fails to climb? Is that considered to be a sport, and therefore a legitimate unique variety? I have some plants of ‘Pierre de Ronsard’ (‘MEIviolin’) that I budded when learning to bud a few years back and they have failed to climb. I am assuming it is because I took the material from the wrong place on the parent plant which I did before learning of this problem. Regardless of this, I have three year old plants, grafted onto multiflora, that are no bigger than standard shrubs now and the four year old parent plant is now more than 2 meters tall and wide. I have other plants grafted onto this multiflora that do not appear to have been dwarfed by the understock. The parent is grafted onto ‘Dr Phooey’. BTW… got no plans to do anything with it… just a question to kill a cat
Oh… I meant to add that there are several non-climbing PDR that came from different parts of the plant… so the idea of a mutation or a sport doesn’t fit.
Simon, does your older PDR actually climb like a standard climber by blooming along laterals on long climbing canes?!? Budwood selection may very well affect PDR’s growth. Or maybe it’s rootstock selection. For years, North American rose forums have been peppered with posts about the failure of PDR to grow tall (or at all) and to repeat. Every once in a while someone will post either a massive late summer flush or a tall climber. Everyone else has a shrubby plant that takes several years to establish well and blooms little after the spring flush. The HMF pictures show the range: most plants resemble my shrubby PDR that can be trained as a pillar but naturally grows with a fan shape. I managed to prune one plant into a 2 meters tall pillar. Two others allowed to grow wide are no taller than me - about 1.6 meters - with little bloom along laterals and prodigious quantities of rust.
Rust plagues mine too but not for a while yet as it’s more of a late season problem here. I’d never seen rust on roses until I got PDR. The parent plant is a huge climber that reached the eaves in the first season. I now keep it trimmed back on the fan-shaped trellis it is tied to. The plant itself is about 2.5-3m tall by 2m wide. If I didn’t keep topping it it would be well up onto the roof by now. It’s only just coming into full leaf now and is starting to form buds on the end on the new season lateral bud spurs so I will keep this thread in mind when it’s fully out and add some eye candy. I find mine is prone to stem splitting if the stems are free to swing around in the wind so I keep it fairly tightly trussed to the trellis. The ones I grafted do not, however, show this tendency to split. My PDR blooms in a big flush in a few weeks time with more restrained repeat until the end of the year. There’s always a few flowers on it in the growing season. Really clean too, apart from the rust, which has its good years and bad years too. It’s been a really good pollen parent for me too though it never forms OP hips. Cuttings strike easily and I put one in from a long climbing cane that I cut back last season to see if this own-root from a climbing cane will climb. It’s only just beginning to get leaves after winter so no news on it yet.
So if you were to bud non-climbing portions of a seed-raised climbing rose and this did not climb and was a stable trait from generation to generation would it be a unique variety?
I wonder if Star Roses culled the non climbing from the stock of Eden Rose they shipped? I sold the variety at the beach here in Los Angeles for years. Clients demanded it, rust and all, and it DOES rust! It also climbs here and flowers continuously (on the coast). I dislike it sufficiently to not use it inland. Fortunately, there are plenty of better choices here than that.
I am guessing its from the multiple doses of Fashion close in its lineage. It seems to be a common theme.
One of the Rosa acicularis nipponensis x R-15 seedlings I gave my friend several years ago randomly rusted from head to toe on me this year. It was kind of confusing because I wasnt expecting it on that plant and because its extremely rare for a rose to rust in the Portland metro. Ive only had personal issues with Electron. Is this an issue from Rosa foetida? I guess i have seen really tiny spots of rust on random natives like R. woodsii or R. pisocarpa, etc. but theyre usually deep in a woodlot with poor air circulation. The seedling itself had 360 degrees of air circulation.
Jadea I have never seen rust on R. foetida. I do see it a lot of R. woodsii around here. I also see it on what I believe is R. arkansas. But I wonder if the rust has more then one race because it never seems to infect anything else. Supposedly some of the older Hybrid Teas are suppose to be susceptible but even on these I do not see it.
Ive never seen it on Rosa foetida here cause the foliage literally melts off of the plants here. So that is good to know. I should research more about rust, I guess. I neglected to do so because it was never an issue.
Simon, the answer to your last question isn’t easy if your isolate is from PDR. The trouble with PDR is that it is described in the patent in a squirrely way: as a climbing shrub. Is your isolate of a shrubby shrub different enough to be unique? The patent describes the height as 80-140 cm (2.6 ft in. to 4.6 ft).
Don’t know if my one is different enough to class as a different variety… but in general… with any other variety if we were to graft non-climbing parts of climbing varieties… I guess it would be…
I have millions of the things Robert… they self seed everywhere like weeds.
From a little further back looking back towards PDR, the whole mid-section is hellebores of different types; doubles, singles, reds, whites, greens, etc. If I didn’t already have too much to do I wouldn’t mind getting into these either. They are all going to seed now too.
I noticed today both R. Arkansana and Arkansana “Peppermint” are rusting here in Encino. Neither had any disease in Newhall, twenty miles north and a few hundred feet higher in elevation. (and, a whole lot drier, hotter, colder and windier!) The autumn foliage colors aren’t as pronounced, as I expected, either. Oddly, it’s the only “specied” with foliage problems right now.
