My friend hybridized a rose for me and it is registered on the international rose registry. Fellow members of my rose society took it after a show, propagated it and this year are selling it (they have a business, selling at farmer’s markets and such). This competes with the hybridzer who created and sells the rose bush. There was no patent. What legal recourse do I have ? This behavoir is upsetting to both the hybridizer and me.
Hi Pam,
As I understand it, you have no legal recourse.
A patent is required for legal recourse, however, I do not know if it would be worth it even if the rose was patented.
I think that rose growers should honor the originator with a standard royalty whether or not the rose is patented (for small quantities, that amounts to only pocket change). Some of the rose growers do this. My hat is off to them for doing the right thing.
Jim Sproul
Sorry Pam. Jim is right. The purpose of the plant patent act is to give the hybridizer (i.e. the patent holder) some legal recourse where otherswise none exists. But patenting a rose is an expensive proposition, so an amateur hybridizer is not usually in a position to do this.
I have heard of one other mechanism for protecting roses that are left at rose shows however. That is to dip the cut bloom in Roundup (glyphosate) before displaying it. It doesn’t have any immediate effect during the show, but that way no one will be able to simply take it after the show and root it. But it’s too late for that with the one that was already taken.
Kathy
If it was me, I would open up and spread the word at the next society meeting. I would make them look and feel like dirt. Just because it’s not illegal doesn’t make it right, but you have already said that.
Good Luck with this.
Pam, the more I read this thread, the more sorry I feel for your friend being cheated in, well… such a brazen manner… :0(
Fellow members of my rose society took it after a show
Possession of purloined property?
“My friend hybridized a rose for me and it is registered on the international rose registry. Fellow members of my rose society took it after a show, propagated it and this year are selling it”
If this were me, I would arrange to meet with the rose society executives and express my displeasure on the matter and ask why they do not have a policy requiring members ask permission before taking plant material from the show and propagating it. (I believe some ARS societies do have a policy about this) I would be livid if someone did this to me.
That said, you have little legal recourse, and in the future, all submissions should be treated with Roundup before being displayed, IMO.
Thank you for your comments and advice. Actually, my issue is a subset of a larger one. The hybridizer of my mother’s rose is John Smith of Maryland, who hybridzed Snuffy, Randy Scott, Nina Gee and others. These roses have taken trophies in several 2010 Spring Shows. The two members, who pirated all his roses, (including my moms) and have some of them on their commercial sales list, are active CRs and Judges in the Colonial District.
Round up is to protect his seedlings in the future, what is recommended for the damage already done?
Where does one start within ARS to resolve unethical behavior of CRs and Judges?
What goes around, comes around. These ARS CR/Judges’ ethics will speak for themselves. I sure wouldn’t buy anything from them no matter how good or difficult to get.
I think that Paul is right, a meeting should be in order. You might meet too with these people and tell them how you feel. If everyone played fair and respected other people’s work, patents would not be needed.
Jim Sproul
I am sorry to here about this indecent Pam. I do not know exactly what I would do. I am not a member of a rose society besides the RHA. I would imagine that you guys have a president for your society and I would take my beef to him or her. Maybe at one of your meetings you should suggest some rule changes. I would also talk to the members that you do know and tell them how you feel and maybe they won’t support this theft. If you find out that the members you do know are planning to get one of these plants I would have them get in touch with your friend the breeder that way he can make a little money off of it in the process and they will not be supporting this kind of action. Too bad you did not have a rose business then you could just propagate them and sell them at such a low price that it would not make economical sense for them to sell them anymore. You would take a hit but at least they would have wasted their time for nothing. But I hold a grudge at times. I get that from my mother and I really have to work on it. Best wishes. Hopefully you get this resolved.
They should really have a form at these shows that judges and precipitants sign that says they will not propagate and distribute blah blah blah and ectra, at least that would be a verbal contract and you could take it to small claims court.
Too bad most people do not know how many seedlings you have to go through to get one decent one. I think until you actually breed something you do not fully appreciate how much work it takes.
I know that I would not propagate something some one else breed with out their permission just out of respect alone for how much work they put into it. I also try to make sure that if they send me a plant that they breed I email them in a string of replies that way they have some form of verbal agreement on their end. I would expect the same in return if it was my plant.
Which I think is an important point for all of us. If you have a plant that you give some one for breeding and do not want it to be sold, entered in shows, or distributed without your permission make sure you state something to that effect in your original email also give a decent description of the plant and a photo of it if you can and make sure you get a reply before you send the plant to them. Another thing is make sure all of your spelling is correct. At least you have a verbal contract if you saved your correspondence. It is not fool proof a good lawyer could get around it but its something that would hold up in most cases. And just the possibility of legal action in most cases would scare most individuals from persisting in such wrong behavior. It is sad when we have to do such things in life. In a perfect world we would not need lawyers. In a perfect world we would not have so many people just thinking of themselves.
Pam have you mentioned to these individuals the work it took to get these maybe they just don’t get it? Maybe if the breeder talked with them and explained his situation in a calm manner and the time and work it took maybe they would stop or maybe he or she could reach a compromise on the issue? Maybe you guys can reach some short of gentleman’s agreement on plants that are sold in the future. I personally do not think it will work but who knows.
That will be all I will say on this issue because the more I read this thread the more I wish bad thoughts. It just makes me angry… Time to read happier thoughts.