With some of the old roses that I am using there are barely any descendents on helpmefind… However they have germinated seedlings… Maybe they all terrible…
Anyone used Arthur De Sansal as a mother or as a pollen parent?
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James_D, I would also have been interested in this beautiful rose as a breeder. But since HelpMeFind does not list any offspring and Rose-Biblio indicates that ‘Arthur de Sansal’ does not produce rose hips, I was reluctant. So I’m all the more curious to see if there is any positive answer to your interesting question after all.
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‘Marbrée’ produces seedlings easily, and only about 1/4 of them has any repeat blooming ability (depends on the other parent). In some crosses, you won’t get any repeat blooming seedlings at all. In my experience with ‘Marbrée’, the offspring are practically impossible to propagate by cuttings; they simply will not root. For me, that’s a showstopper of a flaw.
I still have two self-pollinated seedlings from ‘Marbrée’; one has modest spotting and a very double, pleasing bloom form, and the other has no spotting but nice bloom form. Neither repeats. Good luck finding a plant of ‘Marbrée’ on this continent.
I found ‘Rose de Rescht’ produced an occasional viable seed and got a few plants from crosses with Hybrid Perpetuals and modern roses. Most had health problems (weak growers, prone to mildew) but one or two were reasonably good growers. ‘Rose de Rescht’ has viable pollen and can produce one or two seeds if it likes the pollen you give it. I’d explore this rose more if I were seeking new Portland types.
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Thanks again, I have been using rose de Rescht, Indigo and Duchess of Portland this season (and last) if I could get Marbree without importing it then I would, I have sent out some inquiry’s to suppliers who get some of their roses from suppliers who do grow it. Indigo is by far the healthiest of the 3 where I am, however the other two aren’t bad at all.
Has anyone had any success with breeding once blooming roses with Portland’s to get repeat blooming?
So while checking the comments on helpfindme for Arthur I saw that a Texan man had managed to get hips on the rose. I private messaged him to see how It went and sadly their was a drought and the water was literally turned off, he lost nearly all his roses… So my only leed has gone cold
Thanks for sharing this information. I’m sorry about that. Now it really depends on whether you have enough space for this experiment and if it is still or even more worth a try for you.
I’m not sure it’d be particularly successful
I have a few modern x portland (sold as Rose Du Roi but I wasn’t convinced, certainly Portland but it had thorns) and they are once bloomers, so portlands with once bloomers is likely low odds.
Maybe it’s more reliable with things closer but every Portland I’ve had has failed to thrive for me (and I’ve really really tried with Marbree, so willing to set hips, germination good…seedlings no disease resistance here…Marbree generally dies year 3…multiple plants of it)
What sort of climate are you in?
Australia, east coast…so temperature.
I’ve been to the east coast of Australia, literally a road trip from bottom to top. Very humid, I saw when I went to rose gardens that if once flowering old roses were used at all that they really really didn’t like it. No vigour and tiny flowers compared to when seeing that at home. I think the Portland’s like the Gallicas, albas etc need a cold spell to perform
Portlands have been extremely problem-prone in my part of the U.S. Atlantic seaboard, too, even though there is plenty of winter cold. High disease pressure in the long, hot, humid summers is pretty much the only clear reason for their poor performance here. Even healthier Portland or Portland-adjacent roses like ‘Indigo’ and ‘Marchesa Boccella’ (really more of an HP; then again, ‘Rose de Resht’ is probably also a HP) have been very short lived in my garden.
For a long time in the U.S., the only supposed ‘Rose du Roi’-type in commerce was passed off as ‘Rose du Roi a Fleurs Pourpres’, but most folks had long ago worked out that it was not the real one. It’s about as much a Portland as the ‘Francis Dubreuil’ sold here is a tea. Vintage Gardens started selling a ‘Rose du Roi’ that had been recovered as a reversion from ‘Celina Dubos’. I grew that for a few years when I had more space and air circulation to offer, and it seemed to fare better than most Portlands at first, but it deteriorated rapidly once the right blackspot strains got their hooks in it (along with the ever-present cane borer scourge).
Stefan
In my zone 9a subtropical monsoon climate with continuous raining in early Summer followed by extremely hot (35-38℃), arid days, ‘Comte de Chambord’ performs unbelievably well. The blooms 3-4 flushes from April to August, even beautiful (although smaller) in 35℃. When growing outside, only very mild blackspot and mildew compared with most OGRs (except for ‘Alba Maxima’ and probably ‘Blush Noisette’) and HTs. The only downside may be that when growing in a semi shade outside area, it seems tend to send long, slender, thorny shoots (but almost continuously blooming in greenhouse). It seems rebloom better after moderate to heavy pruning in early summer. I think it performs better than common HTs, not to mention its splendid, fragrant old-style flowers.
Picture: CdC blooms in August 2, about 35℃, potted plant in greenhouse.
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I guess this only my second season with my Portland’s, however De Rescht isn’t as happy as I would like, everything else is spotless. I think with a bit more care I can bring her back to peak health
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With your Portland roses (or others) do you prune them before they flower for the first time or do you leave them until they flower before pruning?
Yes, I do it every year. As soon as the Forsythia blooms - that’s a rough guide for me - and the long-term weather forecast doesn’t predict frost, all the reblooming roses are pruned. However, there is usually a fear for me that the time is still too early and that late frosts are still emerging, but if you prune too late, the roses are already in too much sap flow and thus slows the start of growth and flowering.
I shorten the Hybrid Teas, Patios, Floribundas to 15-25 cm total length, but I don’t cut back the Portland roses that much. So I only cut them back, depending on size and volume, by about 20 cm to maximum 30 cm, from the top and cut off damaged wood. I also make sure that the shoot buds on all roses point outwards and that no branches interfere with each other. Single-flowering roses and Species roses are trimmed after flowering if compelling, e.g. rejuvenation pruning. In that case, unfortunately, rose hip development is restricted or no longer possible. Damaged wood or impeding branches are cut back mainly in spring.
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Sorry I phrased that wrong. I also prune my bought roses. I meant your seedlings, when a Portland seedling (from a Portland mother/father) do you leave it to see it’s habit or do you prune them before they flower for the first time. Thanks for your other response though
Sorry! No, I generally do not prune seedlings before the first flowering. This applies regardless of the type of rose because, as you have already mentioned, 1) I want to be able to assess the entire development without interventions and corrections and 2) I do not know at the beginning of the following year, especially by Portlands and Species roses, whether the seedling will flower at all this year and whether it is a re-flowering or a single-flowering rose. In both cases, I would lose the basis for a qualified assessment if I would prune it. In the case of a juvenile flowering seedling, depending on sturdiness and vigor, I start normal pruning reservedly in the second year. At particularly very rare or interesting crossings I act here too carefully.
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As mentioned earlier in this post, it’s hard to get De Rescht to set seed. What I have found is that the plant will sometimes give it a go but not actually make seed. This season I did a lot of crosses on de Rescht to try and increase my chances. What has happened is that the plant has become very unhealthy trying (very unsuccessfully) to make hips with seeds in them . It doesn’t abort the hips it just keeps them and slowly weakens itself. I have managed to collect a good amount of pollen which I have frozen for next season but I think in terms of being a mother. I need to give it a rest as it looks awful 
. Other than that it’s been quite a good season. Hopefully my other roses who are better mothers will except it’s pollen!