Polly Sunshine -- fertile?

I was looking around at Ralph Moore’s nursery, and saw Polly Sunshine – which he calls the first true yellow polyantha. Now, when I read that I instantly thought – Polyantha! Therefore diploid? A good bright yellow repeat blooming diploid? But I can’t find the parentage (Helpmefind doesn’t list, nor does Mr. Moore in his catalogue) so all I am going on is that he calls is a polyantha. I’ve ordered it, and plan on trying it this year in my breeding, but I was just wondering if anyone had worked with it, and if it was fertile at all.



I dont know if it is diploid or tetraploid because the parentage isnt given. For some reason I want to guess tetraploid. Guess there’s only one way to find out if it works!


Polly Sunshine is from a cross of Golden Angel X seedling. It is likely a tetraploid. It was classed as a Polyantha only because it has the look of one, but is otherwise a large Miniature of thoroughly modern parentage. I have no idea if it has fertility or not. Chances are, being a Golden Angel seedling, it will have some fertility.


From Modern Roses, there is another Sunshine Pol. (Robichon int. Cutbush 1927) Georges Elger x William Allen Richardson.

Stated as diploid in MR10.


Good grief – he only calls it a polyantha because it looks like one? All that excitement for nothing. Sure it may still be fertile, but who wants a fertile yellow tetraploid? There are loads of those around. Oh well. It was fun to hope for it anyway.


Well there are a few roses that aren’t what they are suppose to be. Mini for me means a mini plant (less then 12 inches) with small flowers. But some people consider Lady Banks a mini rose… The Class system is hard to create within the roses.

Yellow Butterfly has a polyantha for one parent, and Golden Angel as the other.

Have you considered ‘Perle d’Or’? It is fertile.



I have Perle D’Or and I’m quite sure its going to survive spring. Tell me how fertile it is. I had read just the opposite.

‘Perle d’Or’ is quite fertile as both seed and pollen parent. I have had no problem getting it to set seed. I have no idea why someone might say that it is infertile, as it has known offspring in commerce. (IE: ‘Phyllis Bide’ and ‘Mrs. Dudley Fulton’)

I just discarded a three year old seedling of ‘Perle d’Or’ X ‘Graham Thomas’ this afternoon, actually. It was too prone to disease and so it was removed.


Thanks Paul

I’ll see what I can do with it this summer.

Perle d’Or isn’t the right shade of yellow – there are lots of teas and other diploids with that particular shade of rather weak, rapidly fading yellow – what is missing is the bright, clear yellow which R. foetida brought to modern roses. There are diploid species with really good yellow – R. ecae and related species, but bright, clear, yellow repeat blooming diploids seem to be utterly nonexistant.

What about Leonie Lamesch? Im not sure what ploidy it is but it has never set hips on its own for me. It is a yellow, red and orange polyantha. Sorta looks like a miniature tea rose, though.


Aren’t the colors of Leonie beautiful! Its a fiery blaze of passion, and the growth is thornless. My guess is diploid because of its breeding, but such a color must had come from R. foetido through the Pernetianas. So it could be a triploid too.

Yeah, it definately is a unique rose. Wonder if it transmits yellow–which was my thought behind mentioning it. If it is a true diplod then I imagine it has possibility. Im also wondering if it is one of the polyantha types that does whatever it pleases to do. They seem so unpredictable and erratic.

I have a Perle d’Or hip ripening that is a cross with The McCartney Rose. No problem getting it to form hips. As for the seeds, we’ll see. It’s a small hip. Were your hips and seeds small Paul?

I did get a few pollinations done yesterday from a mix pollen of Cecil Brunner and a found damask rose.