I just wanted to see if any one is able to send me some pollen or beater boodwood, from a few varieties that I want to try. Transferring budwood to Europe has been already checked. Two years ago I received some from Ms. Joyce Fleming from Canada. Shipment journey has taken six weeks. Half of the grafts pass through.I think six weeks will influence the pollen. But a certain percentage capable to fertilis will remain. What percentage? Let’s find out.
If any one is able to provide any of these, I’d really appreciate it.
Nordlandrose
L83
Applejack
U11
Red Down x Suzanne
Yellow Brick Road
Day Dream
Macy’s Pride
Ditant Drums
Praire Star
Double Knock Out
Rainbow Knock Out
Joanna Hill (Joseph H.Hill 1928)
Demokracie syn. Blaze Superior (Jan Bohn 1935)
Therese Bugnet
Chateau de Clous Vougeot
Marita (J.Mattock 1961)
This year, the vegetation is well belated, provides flowering early July. I can send pollen or budwood of the following varieties:
Sw. Tereska z Lisieux ( Stanis?aw ?y?a Poland, 1998)
I can send you pollen of L83, ‘Red Dawn’ x ‘Suzanne’ and ‘Therese Bugnet’. ‘Therese Bugnet’ can’t be found in Poland? I’ll need a mailing address, of course.
For a few years I thought , Therese Bugnet is sterile.Here in Poland it has not set seeds. Until a few days ago at the forum became aware that it is fertile. For me, it’s really a big surprise. I have often thought about TB how it could to be a very helpful in raising healthy and resistant varieties. I’m telling you Paul it is a kind of rose resurrection.
This is my maili address:
Lukasz Rojewski
Konstantynow Lodzki
95-050, ul.Modrzewiowa 14,
Polska
I watched a map and appears that flowering time seems to be around the same period.
Since ‘Therese Bugnet’ is prone to powdery mildew, it will likely only be useful to develop selections in Zone 2 - 3 (-30/-40C) climates. However, we can use more fully cold hardy, repeat blooming roses suitable for growing in parks and green spaces in these very cold geographic regions. One major reason for this is that very cold hardy shrubs don’t need (or need very little) pruning of winter killed wood each spring. Pruning the dead wood of semi-hardy rose cultivars is a high maintenance activity that parks labourers often lack skills doing. Also, city parks departments often get hit with budget cuts each year and therefore don’t even have the labour to do this essential work.
What I have done is looked at the cold hardy (Zone 2 - 3) cultivars the early Canadian Prairie amateur rose breeders have developed, and then examined some of the opportunities they missed or tried and failed in their breeding programs. And there are so many of them that I think should be realized as much as possible. For example, ‘Will Alderman’ x ‘Aylsham’, ‘Aylsham’ x ‘Therese Bugnet’, ‘Carlos Dawn’ x ‘Lac La Nonne’. Selections developed from these crosses wouldn’t appeal to the average gardener, but they have value for the development of roses suitable for growing in cold (Zone 2 - 3) climates.
I very much like the work Johannes Pinchbeck (also an Albertan) is doing in this respect, working with the native Rosa woodsii and at the diploid level in his breeding programs to develop fully cold hardy roses for Zone 2 - 3 climates.
I will also send you pollen of ‘Aylsham’ and ‘Caroyal’, which are valuable cultivars to use in developing roses cold hardy for Zone 2 - 3 climates. Or to add a dose of cold hardiness in breeding programs for roses adapted to growing in somewhat warmer climates.
I realize what I have written may not be too relevant for your rose breeding programs, but thanks for the opportunity to express some of my thoughts that other breeders might find useful.
“What I have done is looked at the cold hardy (Zone 2 - 3) cultivars of the early Canadian Prairie …” it seems to be a fantastic project. I wonder how long You do testing new seedlings until the selection process. As you said, your work in future will be invaluable for further action. For the purposes of climate in which I live, I decided to try to achieve frost resistant klimbers repeating flowering. For this purpose I cross tested - resistant varieties, such as a Explorers series with Rudolf Geshwind roses (‘Nordlandrose’ I and II). In Poland, year by year, the winter time begins unexpectedly. Frequent changes in temperature, harsh winds or temperature jumps in February - all this exposes rosarians to the risky lottery. In this case, I pay attention to a roses with one are little later awaken from hibernation.This selection can produce varieties which do not suffer as a result of warming winter sun. If you have your own roses that meet your expectations and You like to share them for further work, I will be delighted.Being honest I had never heard about the work of Johannes Pinchbeck. In the coming days look for something about him.
Sorry for my English, I do the best I can
Ps .Also for the first time You have turned my attention to the’ Aylsham ‘and’ Caroyal '.
If you want to develop repeat blooming, “frost resistant” climbers, one option you may want to seriously consider is developing Rosa laxa breeding lines in your work. It’s one of my favourite species and shrubs can easily grow 3 metres tall. Some genotypes have repeat bloom. It’s cold hardy to -30C. It’s in the pedigree of the Explorers ‘John Cabot’ and 'William Booth, for example. The latter via Griffith Buck’s ‘Applejack’. I think its potential hasn’t nearly been realized and more breeders, especially those living in cold climates (Zone 3), should be using it.
I’ll begin gathering together some useful rose material for your breeding work with the goal of sending it to you next year. For example, I have a selection of L83 that is more cold hardier than its parent that I can send you. Of course, I’ll also try to send you L83. And I can send you some Rosa laxa material if you don’t have any.
Testing seedlings of shrub roses, I can usually tell if they are worth keeping for selection by the second year of their growth. By that time they have proved to be disease resistant and have foliage that is attractive. Foliage attractiveness is important to me, since I don’t want a shrub that is ordinary looking with attractive flowers.
I’m sorry it took so long I did not answer a lot of responsibility at work. I’s very Kind of you that you thought to send me Rosa laxa - I do not have any . I have finished writing my breeding program. Sending you a fragment without major assumptions. Maybe something will interest you.
One of the parents must have proven status of a plant outstandingly resistant to frost.
I use chemicals only in the early stage of plants growth.
Covering before winter or alternatively other protection is to be used only during the first year of life of the plant.
Not all off the species are suitable for hybridization although self-pollination produces rich crop of seeds. Pollination with an alien pollen gives good results in case of closely related species like eg. r. lucida and r. parviflora
In our climate numerous varieties bind germinating seeds not until old age.
Not all stamen reach maturity for pollination in the same time.
I pollinate less resistant species with more resistant ones. As a result more resistant species give part of their resistance to their breed, eg. Rosa microphylla (Rosa roxburghii) known as a highly resistant rose, crossbred with r. beggeriana ensures completely resistant breed.
Self-pollination of some of the species is possible a day before the blooming because the anthers most often pollinate in the evening. It is most common for Rosa ferox (Rosa glutinosa) and Rosa rugosa.
Varieties artificially pollinated may often seem as sterile, it may be beneficial to use their pollen (use as a pollinator) as in case of ‘Roberty Bodnar’ J.Fleming.
Nordlandrose crossbreeds are mostly fertile.
Infertile hybrids sometimes grow single fruits in the old age. From these ones which arise as a result of a random pollination of seeds there arise roses which have a tendency to self-pollinate but only when they return to primordial (first or second) father or mother type.
Hybrids usually keep the type of father plant while the shape and the color of the flowers is similar to mother plant. If the mother plant blooms with white flowers and flowers of the father plant are purple then we are going to obtain mostly white-blooming hybrids from such crossbreeds.
Johannes Pinchbeck is johannes p here on the forum. And I’d have to second Paul’s comments, as I’m a fan of Johannes work myself (and of Paul’s for that matter).
Could I suggest you take a look at R. majalis, as it’s one of the hardiest roses in many of the colder parts of Europe. And perhaps look into some of the Boursault roses like ‘Morletii’. I’m not sure just how hardy they are but they are sold in Sweden and the Netherlands so they may be of use to you.
I tend to think that the Boursaults should be explored further in breeding. I’ll be making use of a few myself when I’m ready to work with climbers. I cant say exactly why I’m drawn to them, but something in my gut tells me they shouldn’t be overlooked.
Yes, I exist. I have being breeding for 10 yrs but the progeny that I am developing is multigenerational.
The cross that I am hoping to get to be the best is:
((Rosa rugosa alba x R. woodsii) x Martin Frobisher)X (R. woodsii x White Pavement). All of the cultivars add something to the mix. It has taken time but it was worth it.
Another thing I am working as is a reblooming diploid yellow (Complex non-carotenoid cleaving buff rose) X Hazeldean. I had to do embryo rescuing to get only one plant.last year. Can hope with experience I can get more next year. now that it is confirmed that it is confirmed a diploid I may also use Topaz Jewel.
For true red I am using ((Rosa blanda x Red FDH) x Adelaide Hoodless.
But will later try (Red FDH x Betty Will) x Adelaide hoodless. Worked many years with Mothersday but I only got progeny that was pink purple and lanky like multipolar. from the first cross I was able to get three seedlings but they were kill by damp off. this is the first year that I would have to work without No-damp. I lost a lot of seedlings because I did not know what I was doing for sterility. but by the way I learned how to synthesize the chemical myself so I was able to save many of my plants.
It is a lot of work but I dream about it at night, As you see this is no quick cross to fame.
It’s good to know I’m not the only person who rates the Boursalts.
Can I ask which ones and what you crossed them with? I think a most of the Boursalts are diploid (going on Modern Roses XI) an as such may not be great pollen parents for tetras. I’d imagine there must be some fertility in at least one of them to have produced the class. It may just be a case of finding the right one.
Graham I used**Amadis, Morlettii and an other which I cannot remember the name**. I see (Hansen) used Amadis and got one offspring Zitkala. Looking at Amadis’s breeding it looks like a Triploid, the others I cannot comment on due to the lack of information.
Sounds like you gave them a fair crack, I don’t think there are more than 3 or 4 Boursalts out there so you must have tried about 75% of them. Still, it’s good to know that a Boursalt can produce something as hardy as Zitkala, though it may not fully hardy to Zone 2. The fact that Amadis can produce something even close to Z 2 hardy is encouraging enough that I’ll have to pursue that one.
It’s been questioned whether R. pendulina played any part in the creation of the Boursalts as the few that have been tested were apparently diploid. That said, I’ve not really heard any suggestion as to what else may have been used. It’s always possible that the pendulina used was a diploid selection. And there may have been a mistake made when assessing ploidy. As you say, information is lacking, so it’s difficult to form make an informed judgement where Boursalts are concerned. So as far as ploidy goes, it’s anybody’s guess.
I’m planing some pollen collecting trips this season, for use in pollen measurement, so with any luck I’ll be able to get some Boursalt pollen and get a better idea of the ploidy for myself. I should probably try some pollen germination to, just to get an idea of fertility.
I had Zitkala for five years before I culled it. It never put out much growth and it didn’t produce many flowers. It never produced any hips and I didn’t try it’s pollen on anything, so I don’t know if it’s possible to do any crosses with it. It would dieback to the snowline every winter here in zone 4. In comparison Pax Apollo, another Hansen rose, is very vigorous, produces lots of flowers and is fully hardy here. It also never produces any hips and when I tried it’s pollen on Darts Dash and Blanc Double de Coubert, the pollinations failed. Of the two roses, Pax Apollo would be the better rose to create a hardy climber or rambler. That’s if you’d be able to get the pollen to take on anything, maybe something other than a Rugosa like I tried it on.
When the time comes I’m thinking of working directly with the Boursalts rather than a derivative like Zitkala. I just like the class and want to see If I can do anything with them. Admittedly Pax Apollo looks interesting, but like so many interesting roses, I don’t think it’s available here.
It’s the opposite here, it’s the Boursaults that are harder to come by. One nursery has Inermis Morletii in stock and are out of stock of Amadis. They have intriqued me and in the back of my mind I thought it would be interesting to try some crosses with them. More because they are thornless or nearly so than the climbing nature of them. Morletii is listed as Zone 4 hardy by the nursery, so I might be able to grow it here. HMF doesn’t list any decendants of it so I’m not sure if it’s fertile or not. Warren hasn’t had any luck with them so I don’t know if I would either and that makes me reluctant to try them.
If you’d like I could send you some pollen of Pax Apollo along with my (Marie Pavie x R.blanda) pollen this spring. We’re having a really late spring (it snowed again two nights ago) so I’m not sure when the roses will be blooming this year.
Thank you all for your suggestions , they are very valuable.
In two weeks, some of the seedlings begin to bloom. I’m excited to cross Rose de Resht x A. Mackenzie. For three years I’m crossing Fruchlinsgold with different variations. Unfortunately, so far all the crosses are similar to the varietys. Seedlings do not have any visible signs of spinny.
Yes, I am still interested in receiving pollen of Therese Bugnet. Whether, have you work directly with Therese Bugnet? Here where I live does not bear fruit.
