Pat Austin

I’ve come to the end of three years growing this one. I love the color and fragrance and the disease resistance is outstanding in my garden. There has not been a spot of BS or mildew which has impressed me. It has not been a great hip setter for me though. I’ve only one hip from this season that is a Pat Austin x Abraham Darby cross. There is not much in the way of descendants for this one listed on HMF as well. I’m leaning towards pulling this one since it doesn’t seem to be very fertile both ways so far for me. I’m looking for comments from others regarding their experience using this in breeding that might make me change my mind. Thanks in advance.

Rob

In my climate it throws unbalanced mile long canes every which way, and looks a mess. The flower color fades to pink tones (it gets some BS, but so does almost EVERYTHING here). I don’t like it.

I “recycled” it at the end of year 2. I had it with that variety. The growth could not support itself or the blooms in my area. I also hated the foliage. I hated the smooth on smooth aesthetic. Disease was not an issue though.I LOVED the blooms though. I wish the plant was like Jude the Obscure or Jubilee Celebration, which are both healthy, have swift repeat, and can support themselves properly. They are also more fragrance friendly (to me).

My advice to you is to be sure to cross it with something that will either put its spineless backbone to good use or with something that can give it a real backbone, so to speak :slight_smile: I think that it could have potential but you have to be aware of its major pitfalls that need to be oeither overcome or utilized. My other piece of advice is that the flower form is likely not universally appealing. Its too sparse for its form type. The form, in my opinion, is a bank canvas that could go any way you can imagine if matched with thought.

Mine was here when we bought the property 4 years ago and it was a large, old, shapely bush, with a trunk 3 inches in diametre at the time. I pulled mine out after the first year, however, because it had RMV. In the time I had it I too was a fan, Rob. I hope to find a clean clone some time in the future but so far have been unsuccessful in my quest. It forms OP hips with every flower and for me the flowers we large and full. The seeds germinated more easily than 'Abraham Darby’s seeds do. I have photos of it on HMF from b4 I shovel-pruned it. The blooms nod due to a weak neck and all the op seedlings I grew from it also had weak necks. I decided not to use it in crosses because of its RMV issues. It was, however, a nicely shaped shrub for me and didn’t require spraying. Despite the RMV it was tough as old boots actually. As Michael says I’d be putting it with something with shorter stronger necks because her flowers lack back bone.

These are two of the seedlings I got from PA. These are both their first flowers:

I don’t have either of these two any more due to their inability to hold their heads up.

There’s not a lot here convincing me to keep her. lol I would be great if the one cross, PA x Abraham Darby would produce something cool with a strong neck, very full bloom, subtle orange and yellow color, fragrance and the disease resistance of AD. I’ve grown a number of the Austin roses over the years and AD is the one remaining plant. Love that rose.

‘Abraham Darby’ is one of the few remaining Austins in my collection also. The reasons I keep it are twofold: it makes an excellent garden shrub with superb blooms, and it also breeds some very nice things.

I still have ‘Othello’ in the garden, but not because its a good rose (its not: too much plant and not near enough flower, for starters) but because it was the first Austin I acquired and it was instrumental in starting me as a hybridizer all those years ago.

That’s a great reason for keeping ‘Othello’ Paul. And, it did give you the attractive roses, ‘Gallicandy’ and ‘Ellen Tofflemire’ as well. I’m a fan of Othello’s bloom form, color and scent…it’s too bad the plant is lacking.

This discussion just goes to show how different tastes (and noses!) can be. For me, Pat Austin is so deliciously fragrant, of honeysuckles, that I would grow it for the scent alone. I also like the look of the red filaments against the golden heart of the open flower. It also looks good planted next to other warm-toned Austin roses in my garden. However, it isn’t a strong grower in the Minnesota climate and the flowers shatter quickly. I’ve never tried to breed with Pat Austin (though it has some OP hips right now) but if I did I would not use another Austin rose, merely on the assumption that surely David Austin himself would have already tried any good crosses among his own productions. I’d try it with a shrub that had qualities PA lacks, a species or an Explorer (hmmm…note to self for next season). The Canadian roses are truly wonderful, but scent isn’t their strong suit.

I absolutely adore Jubilee Celebration. I groew it as one of the extreme few Austins. Its pretty much a shrubby floribunda type with healthy foliage and huge dark salmon blended primrose blooms with nice scent. Its distantly from Abe Darby but without the cons.

Pat was much better in the coastal climate here than inland. The higher heat and more intense, dry climate bleached her out unmercifully. On the beach, she required chemical assistance not needed inland. She impressed me as a modern day Pernetiana, red prickles on the peduncle and all. Like the little girl with the curl in the middle of her forehead, when she was bad, she was rotten!

lol Great sense of humor Kim.

Simon,

Thanks for sharing the pictures. I really like the yellow one. Shame it didn’t hold its head up enough for you.

Austin thought enough of this rose to name it after his wife…that says something. :slight_smile: As much as I love it I have to make room. I checked on the one hip on it today and found that it’s gone…DARN squirrels!!

It says two things, first, it was OK THERE. Second, it was the first of his roses in a color he abhorred and denounced for years until HE offered it. Much like Panasonic, who put stickers on all of their electronics for years “to avoid fire danger, do not use alkaline batteries”, UNTIL Panasonic began offering alkaline batteries. Then, the stickers mysteriously fell off.

Yeah, he was not a fan of pelargonidin at all, LOL! He definitely loved the old gold tones though. Pat Austin barely hits a note of pelargonidin, but it is definitely there. Pernet is also definitely many layers of Pernet. I didnt want to say it but that is what I intended by my disdain of the foliage and stem type. I really cannot stand it because stringy + narrow + glossy is such a bad combination aesthetically. Maybe it will be all the rage some day :stuck_out_tongue:

Pat Austin, in my opinion, could be valuable if matched correctly to a climber type that could utilize the color, fragrance and likely genetic dominance for short climbers. The match would need to be something that helps over come to general aesthetic, peduncle strength and proneness to blackspot. Something like Alfresco would be a decent example.

So even though it isnt my personal taste, I think it has genetic potential that other roses may not have.