Passing Stripes from Berries n' Cream

General Discussion
1

When I first became interested in breeding striped roses

I did quite a bit of poking around into the ancestry

of existing striped roses. I found that almost all the

striped roses recent enough to have ancestry information

were descended from Ferdinand Pichard via Moore’s striped

minis. The rest seemed to be spontaneous sports. I

could also find no striped roses descended from a known

striped sport.

I concluded from this that most striped roses could not

pass on the trait as a pollen parent, and Ferdinand Pichard

and its children were unusual in this regard.

Before discovering this, information I had already

crossed Rosa rugosa ‘Rubra’ x ‘Berries n Cream’[/url].

The few seedlings I kept from this cross have bloomed

this year, and I’m shocked that two of the five to bloom

so far have been striped! This is quite a bit better

than the three out of twenty-one striped seedlings

I’ve seen so far from Rosa rugosa ‘Rubra’ x Ferdinand Pichard.

I’ve noticed at least two other RHA members talking about

crosses with Ferdinand Pichard, and since except for the

stripes the rose appears to me to have little to recommend

it, I presume they also chose it for its ability to

pass on stripes.

I can’t say Berries n Cream has many exceptional traits

beyond its stripes either, but I doubt I was so lucky

as to have stumbled onto the only recent sport that passes

stripes.

In conclusion (sorry, I tend to ramble) if you are breeding

for stripes you very well might want to try some of the

recent striped sports as parents.

2

Some traits seem to carry to each generation even when outbreeding. It is like the anise fragrance of the English Roses. Many are generations away from Belle Isis, looking entirely different roses, but still have that fragrance. Miniturism too.

3

The “Myrrh” (or Anise) fragrance in many roses is not always a direct result of using ‘Belle Isis’ in breeding. I have discovered that if you use most any fertile Gallica as a parent, and cross it with a modern rose, either scented or not, many of the offspring will inherit that fragrance to some degree. I have seen it often in my ‘Tuscany Superb’ seedlings. I think Austin plays up this myth as a sales pitch as much as anything.

Paul

Link: www.rdrop.com/~paul/main.html

4

Eric,

Where did you hear that Berries ‘n’ Cream was a sport? I understood that it was a cross between Evita and an unnamed red and white striped mini.

5

Aha!

That would drop me back to my original hypothesis, since most

striped minis descend from Ferdinand Pichard.

I got the sport information from

www.everyrose.com[/url]

but when I go there now I see they have updated their info

to describe both possible parentages.

And here I thought I’d discovered that sports COULD pass

striping when I’d really only discovered that ‘Berries n Cream’

is not a sport. Oh well, better to know.

6

Ok, I looked up the patent PP10639

and the parentage is definitly Evita and an unnamed red and white striped mini. I’m sorry I was mistaken and started

this string of notes.

7

I discovered the same thing trying for stripes from Caribia, a striped sport of Piccadilly. My friend David described the “sport” as probably originating in one of three layers, and the layer of tissue that produces the pollen and egg do not contain the genes for striping. I had many seedlings from Caribia and not a single stripe.

I would say though, that Ferd produces stripes of some sort in about 30% of all the seedlings it produces iregardless of which parent it is.

I wonder if your low percentage of stripes in rugosa crosses could be from selfs due to the notorious way rugosas shed pollen so early. I have found it hard not to get several selfs from even meticulously emasculated rugosas.

Randy

8

I take a spray bottle of water with me when I emasculate Rugosa blooms, and wash the stigma before pollinating. (allowing it to dry before applying pollen, of course) I found this virtually eliminated selfings from early pollen shed.

Paul

9

Paul

What a neat Idea! I always “blow” hard on them, and it seems to work pretty well, but the crude comments from my kids is discouraging to say the least!

I’ll definitely try your method!

Randy