When you consider your selections, is “easy to root” ever a factor? I’ve noticed that many of the available commercial varieties are extremely difficult to root and grow on their own roots. I got thinking about this even more when Simon brought up the trails he was entering and the own root vs. grafting issue. I also wonder whether viruses from the rootstock can have an effect on the ability of the desired cultivar to root from cuttings? If I remember correctly, Mr. Moore used this as one of his criteria for his roses.
It’s number two on my list after health. I’ve decided to go ahead and put own-root into the trial… for no other reason than to make a point.
Thanks and good for you for standing by your principles.
Jeff, easy to root becomes a factor when everything else passes, yet it becomes too difficult to distribute without grafting :]
It only becomes difficult to distribute if it’s difficult to propagate. I’ve managed to strike cuttings 3-4cm long with just one bud on some varieties. It can be done.
SimonV, I admire your honesty. Something which is vigorous and productive on own-root is more honest, rather than using a Grafted-Face to cover up its wimpiness. Austin marketed some losers under Dr. Huey, and these wimps show their true face when people buy them as own-root and suffer with their stinginess: Jude the Obscure, Eglantyne, and Brother Cadfael.
??? Jude the Obscure are huge here. There are like 30+ of them at Heirlooms, all on their own roots. Have you seen the two beasts its bred from, one from the Aloha line and one from the Golden Wings line?
Michael, what do you consider to be the Aloha line?
If it doesn’t perform well on its own roots, and is not easily propagated by cuttings, it will never leave my test garden, no matter how attractive it may be. (Although I have released roses in years past that break this rule: ‘Song of the Stars’ being the most glaring culprit). I’d like to think we’ve learned what a terrible idea it is to graft inferior selections to aggressive rootstock just to get a decent plant to market. I may be wrong, of course, but one can hope.
Plus, I’ve never seen root stock grow as fast as a lot of these seedlings, so why bother.
Neil
Don, Abraham darby is.
I’d consider the Aloha line as those descended from Abe Darby, Charles Austin, and Lilian Austin. Those three are all first generation Aloha seedlings and all have been used to further the “ideal”. In my observation, they carry also black spot, nasty prickles, soft, easily fried petals and climbing growth. Of course, they also have nice fragrance and very “pretty faces”, which will sell the heck out of them.
Jude the Obscure GRAFTED at my zone 5a rose park is over 6 feet tall. I checked on Jude as own-root with 2 people here: one reported 3 blooms the first year, the other reported it doesn’t get taller than 3 feet, same height as his own-root Abraham Darby (6 feet GRAFTED at the rose park), and 3’ tall, very stingy own-root Brother Cadfael (10 feet grafted elsewhere). Jude is stingy as own-root with many people across the nation. I rooted Jude just to find out why, it doesn’t like wet, leaves dropped with BS, while Gene Boerner rooting next to it is 100% clean. Jude is best as grafted, own-root has problems in cold zone with heavy clay.
Heirlooms is next to a huge river in one of our valley systems, which has heavy clay soil. Im guessing the issue is something else – pH, the climate, or some such. I grew Aloha own-root. It was a “weed,” just like New Dawn is. Ive seen tons of Abraham Darby own root since it is a “classic”, and they are “weeds,” too. Aloha and Abraham Darby do get black spot in wet conditions, however.
New Dawn must require more chill than it gets here. In the average SoCal climate, it is rampant, indeterminate, primarily spring flowering. It sets seed from every flower and refuses to rebloom unless dead headed. It is also a black spot and mildew magnate. Our heat and sun intensity are not flattering to the color, either. Definitely not a great climate for savannah conditions.
I checked on Jude the Obscure’s lineage. It’s Abraham Darby x Windrush (which has pernetiana Soeur Theresa). Kim warned me about pernetiana’s problems: prefer dry & hot climate, BS issue. Andrea from England reported that Jude grafted on multiflora doesn’t do well there as the Jude on Dr. Huey that she grew in North Carolina. Grafted Jude blooms better … it’s harmony in grafting a dry & hot preference on Dr. Huey, who also likes it dry. But grafting a water-hog on Dr. Huey is a different story.