Can anyone help me with these rugosa OP’s? I’ve never grown rugosa from seed, so have no frame of reference. I searched this forum up and down, and couldn’t find much in the way of photos, certainly not ones at this emergent-stage. I would assume that selfs of rugosa ‘Alba’ would show little or no anthocyanins, but again, no reference.
For specific context of these seeds, the hips from rugosa ‘Alba’ were collected from a large plant growing outside a local steakhouse. (I also liberated a well-rooted sucker.) The beds nearby in the parking lot surrounding were filled with various landscaping-roses of the Meidiland/Noack/Kordes “groundcover”-types. The seed from ‘Blanc Double de Coubert’ came from plant I put in at my ex-MIL’s house, with only four ‘Gourmet Popcorn’ close by.
Please, share pictures of YOUR white rugosa seedlings, so I can educate myself on what I’m looking at as they grow. Thanks.
Dusty
Hi @VanIsleDWSmith
I came across the following gallery a while ago, it might give you some comparison material.
No idea who put the pictures up, but it’s a nice collection of pics of various rugosa seedlings in the early stages of growth:
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Rosa_rugosa_(seedlings)
Thanks for that, SR! They sure do look like mine, for sure. I wish that there were pics of rugosa ‘Alba’ seedlings included in the series. Perhaps the alba-alleles are over-written back to wild-type, and this showing pigments. Hard to say for certain without some kind of comparison.
Regardless, I’m pretty excited. I shan’t be expecting juvenile-bloom, but I am sure I’ll keep at least a handful of the more interesting of them that show some hybridity.
SEVENTY-THREE GERMINATIONS SO FAR.
Obviously, this is far more than anticipated or wanted, so I am desperate for help thinning out the herd!
How do I pick out the likely-selfs from the bunch? Are they going to be pigmentless, reflecting their ‘alba’ heritage?
Are the seedlings with obvious anthocyanins signs of hybridity, or can ‘alba’ selfings produce wild-type pinks? It seems unlikely to me, as most alba-alleles in other plants are a recessive characteristic.
What other hints will appear to differentiate rugosa x “other” seedlings?
I don’t know what I was thinking, and now I am overwhelmed at the abundance. HALP, pls!!
Hello Vanlsle, in such cases with so many seedlings and not unlimited space, I keep only the 10 strongest and most interesting little plants. The criteria are also the coloration of the hypocotyl as possible sign for hybridity, the type of spination, the leaf shape and structure, depending on the preference. With a 10x magnifying glass, you can already recognize the finest differences after the first 3-5 leaves, even the rugosa foliage is identifiable quite well in this stage. Some of them always stand out due to their growth and development difficulties. Further selection is then made in the subsequent process. I have also had seedlings with rugosa foliage and no spines, but they are rare and usually not vigorous. Just a note: Rugosa hybrids mostly do not flower in the first year, even later.
As a small additional information about the inheritance of the white color of R. rugosa ‘Alba’, I would like briefly translate the following passage from a German study by Britta Feuerhahn and Wolfgang Spethmann from (1995) entitled ‘Kreuzungen bei Wildrosenarten’:
In a study of crosses between R. rugosa and R. rugosa ‘Alba’, both red and white flowers occurred. A tendency towards one flower color was not observed.
Perhaps my details could give you a few orientation.
Thank you very much! I think with this information and the masses of seedlings I have currently, I will make every attempt to document their growth and progress as they grow. So far, they run from palest pure green to some with bright red stems and leaf-edges. None so far look twisted. I will get some photos. Maybe I can even try to line up my 10x loupe in front of my phone camera! Hmmm.
You’ve given much to think about, Roseus.
Dusty.
Such observations about growth and progress are highly interesting every year anew! To line up a loupe on your phone camera is a perfect idea. You will be amazed.
Nevertheless, over the years I have noticed that within a large scale of seedlings, especially from OP crosses, which often emerged at almost the same time, most are very similar in their traits. About a third stand out due to different characteristics. I then set myself the difficult task of filtering out the seedlings that fall outside the norm and could represent something special. It’s not an easy job and I’m sure I sometimes make due to lack of space the wrong decision but it also happens to the big professionals. I’ve heard that a few times.
If you have to decide, I wish you a lucky hand with your choice!
Honestly, I cannot tell if these are selfs or crosses. There does appear to be some variation in colour and texture of the leaves. I’ve thinned a few out already (as the germination was astoundingly good), by selecting the unpigmented, very textured foliage as most likely to be selfs, and pulling out some “all fairly identical” growing in tight clumps.
Even a dozen at the end of the season will be too many; and with juvenile-bloom being practically impossible, I keep thinking to myself: “what have I done!?”
You know?
Then again, they look so similar to some of the OP rugosa ‘Alba’ seedlings too…
The texture and colour and shininess of the leaf-surface varies rather widely, IMO.
I agree! Between the looking like hybrids are few promising ones. If you can, I would still wait a little longer until three more leaves have appeared. Then you will be able to assess the habit somewhat better and differences will become more visible and stable. This makes it easier for you to select. In similar cases, I am often surprised to suddenly recognize something different to all others in a seedling that I must have overlooked several times before. This makes the pleasure all the greater! This is real detective work.