One “Good” 2022 Cross Grower and PM resistant Seedling

[RikuHelin]

Might not excite anyone, but me … in my seedling plot l rediscovered today one of my 2022 cross seedling this morning that l put out this spring … permanently.

Never looked at it this summer as there are lots of seedlings and large roses in the line of sight (10-12) in there. One cane is growing through a Canadian Shield rose.

Why excited ? besides that it actually grew bigger this year,

… because not a lick of powdery mildew, or other assorted ailments. Its clean as a whistle.

Tag says to potential pollen parent Rosa fedstchenkonian or J Cabot.

All other seedlings in same plot have same Merveille seed parent (Gallica) and one of the two same pollen parents. They are plagued with powdery mildew as are some heritage and OGRs in plot.

Tag owner memory mixup occurred last year when digging seedlings out to bring in for 1st winter.

No idea why this one clean.

Maybe R. Kordessi … nah l would claim Simonet’s RDxSuzanne if JC pollen parent. But my Fedstchenkoniana plant is also clean as is the mother Gallica.

Therefore must of outgrown it very early relative to the others.

Never mix tags up or lose track … pita.

Oh … yes it could also be the axeman gnome from snowy’s seven dwarfs … garden plaster threats may work except for voles - direction action required.

Put on small trellis for neatness and vole / rodent deterrent added because of potential

Edit Oct 4 2023

Seedling still clean, nay absolutely spotless relative to Nuit d Younge, Juno or Bullata neighbour, and other seedlings in same plot - indicates young juvenile gold medal athletic champion potential in PM health judging event.

Now needs to tick winter hardy or semi hardy (former preferred for my garden), and bloom boxes … worry about whether of garden merit later if more important boxes ticked first.

I better take one or two cuttings for winter … might be GG to me.

Maybe a one off fluke that only comes around for me once every 25 years based on track record.

Has to be a Gift as it comes with lost male parentage tag. But l know there was only two known ones that l used in Merveille’s crossing. Adds a mystery never to be solved.

[MidAtlas]

Congrats! That foliage looks incredible for October. I would probably guess that R. fedtschenkoana is the pollen parent with those looks and the shared lack of mildew. I also had no luck getting JC to cross with OGRs when I was trying to make crosses with Explorers, but I didn’t try too many times before giving up.

[RikuHelin]

Hi Stefan,

Yes it’s quite impressive to my eyes.

For comparison, and from the same 2022 crosses of Merveille x John Cabot and x R fedtschenkoniana, is the rangy seedling of “x John Cabot”.

Marked difference in PM immunity and growth / habit so far.

Even tagged pollen parentage known seedlings x Rosa fedstchenkoniana and x porsiliini kauntor show PM - all in same 6’ long seedling bed length.

BTW the clean large rose is Lillian. Age thing?

There is a couple of modern Cdns for the market in the bed that are clean.

Canadian shield and Chinook Sunrise or sunset, cant remember - except only remember somebody got severely bent about its commercial value.

It’s okay, but both are knee breakers for Geritol generation folks.

[RikuHelin]

Hot dam Stefan … ugly photos but not to me … cleared away lower protection today (winter tan line break) and you maybe right.

First winter protected and unprotected shows some true hardy character that is promising … if l can keep voles away … the performance would be more indicative of R fedtschenkonian winter performance than JC in my garden.

If you compare to summer version lower small cane missing. Stepped on it last fall before l vole/mice corralled it.

Tip damage of two inches - actually its snap. But lots exposed and unexposed buds to winter that seem to have sailed through. Merveille does not survive buried in peat moss after three winters - ing…

This cross may have hit first true goal … like projecting prematurely. Now for purple bloom wait and fedtschenkonian release repeat coding. My l do project.

Only time will tend if it sails through true hardy testing like it did the fall’s plague of pm. I am confident it will.

And keeping with my engineering training of compare and cross reference until sure … true fedtschenkonian today … sure looks close?

Maybe no crossing occurred ? Only when white small white single blooms, and orange red prickly flask hips show up, will l know for sure.

Nope cant be because fedtschenkoniana was the pollen parent.

[MidAtlas]

You definitely have a hardy seedling on your hands! Passing the all-important winter test with flying colors is a very big deal, even if the added goals of purple flowers (at least dark ones) and repeat bloom end up taking a little more time and breeding to manifest. If R. fedtschenkoana is the pollen parent, then what you have is also practically two-thirds of a Damask rose, the hardier fraction minus R. moschata. The flowers should reveal more of the picture.

It could be that mildew resistance is at least partly linked to age/root depth because of the access that provides to consistent moisture, although it’s rarely a big problem here, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen it on LG.

Stefan

[RikuHelin]

Txs for your unbiased eye comments.

The bed it is in is 50% seedlings for testing my crosses. The mice / vole cane damage was extensive in the bed - due to owner complacency (never attacked in 25 years) and neglect … dumb. But have a deterrent design change going to get done today …

By the way and speaking of “species” reblooming, my id picture is from a Kew monster they labelled R moschata “musk rose”.

Riveted to it as it was blooming - looked to me parts were reblooming (July 20th 2023). Must make a point and get some pollen if my seedling blooms. Probably nothing new for Deep south?

[MidAtlas]

It’s a consistent characteristic of true R. moschata to rebloom like that, and it actually has some hardiness (Zone 6 or so)–usually it starts a little after other roses, but then continues through late fall. It really is a wonderful garden plant where hardy (ignoring its attractiveness to cane borers, and a moderate susceptibility to blackspot). The fact that it is the rose version of Eve for so many hybrids makes it all the more special.

[MidAtlas]

By the way, although repeat bloom seems like it could take a bit longer to recover, Kim’s “Red Fed” showed that deeper petal colors are at least possible in such hybrids: Red Fed

[RikuHelin]

Thanks Stefan good info and hard visual data. I am pretty sure (6 sigma) it was Kim’s open sharing and data dumps that lodged in my brain “get fedtschenkonian” - could be useful.

And your discussion concerning repeat gene inheritance in the “ damask” family that prevented defaulting to the conventional wisdom of rugosas. May end up there eventually (eg my caroyal x grannies). A rugosa x a damask maybe - both hardy.