Older Winners as Pollen Parents


Chrysler Imperial HT 1952 Dr. Lammerts, (Charlotte Armstrong X Mirandy). The Gamble Fragrance Medal, Gold Medal ARS 1956

Pride of England HT, Harkness, slight fragrance, vigorous grower, 1998

Morning has Broken(Graham Thomas X Gold Badge) by John Clements, Heirloom 1996.

I try to use these in various crosses. I’ve had success with all three. These roses of the past and others that have some vigor deserve to be crossed back with new vigorous and disease-resistant species and hybrids. Ollie Weeks liked to use Chrysler Imperial a lot, from what I gather.

Morning Has Broken, a medium-yellow shrub rose I have in my yard, is disease resistant and grows to 4 ft. It resists leaf drop, common in some yellow roses. I have used it in quite a few crosses as both the pollen and seed parent.

My experience with these three roses has proven that they can be valuable pollen parents. They are impressive specimens in their own right.

I think you are right crossed with the right thing certain older roses can give good results when crossed with newer roses or when crossed in a totally new direction. Many times these were crossed over and over to get say hybrid teas, or ectra. I still want to try to use Tiffany with some newer things.

John years ago I started using these oldies in my breeding.
this one here is called Dollar Secret, its breeding lines are (Baronne ed Rothschild X Mme C Testou) X Chrysler Imperial . Blooms are huge in the OGV form with intense perfume, the plant is very very healthy. Blooms are held upright on very strong canes.

Dollar Secret 6.jpg
Dollar Secret 5.jpg

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I fell in love with Prairie Dawn some 20yrs ago. I found it unfortunate I assumed it was tetraploid now I now it to be triploid and I do have seedlings of it. this rose is very hardy, has a noisette shape, nodding gentely and has the best pink with no blue. It is tall which I like but my shy others away from it, and it is rather blackspot prone. It will work in many capacities in developing tall climbers for zones 2/3. I know that many will say that the Kordesii hybrids will work but I find that the use explorer they are not as disease/hardy or tall as claimed.

I too am trying Chrysler Imperial this year as both a pollen and seed parent. I am also impressed by Fragrant Cloud as a seed parent based on 2013 results. This year I am also testing Rosemary Harkness and Peace as both seed and pollen parents.

Central NJ zone 7a

Hello Cathy,

I have found Rosemary Harkness to be very vigorous. It produces lots of seedlings as well as crosses. I have also used Peace. I try to stay away from roses that have too much black spot in mid-coastal Oregon. I haven’t had much trouble with mildew, but the yellow rose varieties seem to be prone to early leaf drop in the spring and small black spot disease. That’s why I was interested in Morning Has Broken. An older variety I would like to get back to is the HT Sutter’s Gold, 1950. It won many awards. A newer orange and gold variety that is vigorous and has does well here is Lucky Strike. I’m also going to try Bloomfield Dainty, a medium yellow hybrid musk, 1924 Thomas. I just transferred a cutting of Bloomfield Dainty from my old workplace in Dayton Oregon.

My two crosses of Rosa Bhutan species rose with Shock Wave and Coronation are about to bloom year.

Hello, JohnJel.

I will definitely look for Sutter’s Gold. The petal count is a bit lower than I want in breeding stock but it is fragrant, and you mentioned it is vigorous. I cannot find any sources for the rose Lucky Strike.
Thank you for the recommendation, John.

Central NJ, Zone 7a

This thread was motivational for me. Life happens and I had to leave my 3/4 acre rose garden behind with some treasures. Well, treasures in my mind. I scooped up Intrigue, Blue Girl, Gold Medal and Show Biz at Home Depot Yesterday. Those along with a few roses I rescued from the old place and some pollen from Kim (THANKS) I’m back to removing petals, gathering and spreading pollen. Some varieties from the 60’s through 80’s are looking pretty good to me right now. I never thought I would go through withdrawals from breeding roses but it happened.

You’re welcome, Jeff! Welcome back!

I love using the classics and combining them with the newest ones.

My favorite rose, Crimson Glory, I imagine can probably be found in 80% of the HTs and Fls bred after 1935. So it probably can be accurately claimed that CG was overused. But, I think that because some of the forms, colors, disease resistance, and hardiness of the roses we have now just was not available back when it was being overused, something new and interesting can be found still. Some planned crosses using CG this year include Knock Out, Lynnie, Indian Love Call, Carefree Beauty, Prairie Princess, Bright Melody, Frontenac, Hi Neighbor, Thrive!, Yellow brick Road, and Midnight Blue. I can almost guarantee no crosses combined these varieties with CG during its heyday so who knows what can be mined from these genes - maybe nothing but its worth it to me. I think this is true of a lot of the other classics too.

I went the other way, using Crimson Glory as the seed parent and Rainbow KO as pollen. So far, singleness rules and pink prevails. Reason I tried it was that RKO gives very strikingly dark red seedlings on some roses that are only light pink themselves. Natural perversity strikes again.