New hybridizer's goals and objectives

General Discussion
1

This will be my first summer to attempt hybridizing so I thought I’d start a thread to document my attempts. Aside from the usual online videos (including those by RHA members) I did get and read both of the RHA books.

I am not looking for specific feedback but any advice, observations, questions, constructive criticism or other are very welcome. The one area where they would be especially welcomed would be in seed and pollen parent selection.

My first and foremost objective is to have fun, learn and enjoy the roses. I have no illusions of a big success and that’s ok. However I also recognize that it is important to have goals and objectives. I live in a very urban environment in the North-East with a small south facing front yard, that also gets shade form trees and a small north facing backyard with a building directly on the east side so right there that sets parameters I have to work with. It makes sense then to focus on developing roses that do well in those conditions.

So universal trait goals are:

  • Develop varieties good for urban spaces limited in space and light
  • Disease resistance
  • Vigor
  • Shade tolerance
  • Compact form (miniature to polyantha range)
  • Container friendly for both size and for old tolerance to Zone 5 since I am in 7a

I have three tracks I want to pursue. I also had an art teacher along time ago who said to “cultivate the emergent” meaning if something interesting develops see where it goes so I have an open mind.

Track 1 - Species roses, especially those native to the North-East USA.

  • Focus on Rosa blanda as the bloom and foliage form
  • Low thorns
  • Reblooming
  • Will use non-native cultivars of course but use backcrosses to eventually keep the native genetics 50%+
  • Universal trait goals as listed above

Track 2 – Old Garden Roses

  • I love them and I’m a big history person
  • Work with the oldest genetics
  • Fragrance
  • Universal trait goals as listed above

Track 3 – Novelty

  • Interesting combinations from my available gene pool even if the combinations don’t fit into tracks 1 or 2
  • If a seedling in track 1 or 2 expresses something novel outside those track goals I can pursue it in track 3
  • Novel traits could be fragrance, color, bloom form, foliage or other
  • Universal trait goals as listed above

This is my gene pool much of which may be too juvenal to produce much this year. I’ve also listed the ploidy as far as I can figure out based on research from this forum and HMF so they could well be wrong. I started growing a number of roses before I got interested in hybridizing and then got a couple more before I started to understand which are good seed or pollen parents. So that is also driving crosses I can make for now. Maybe not the same list if I could start fresh but that’s ok.

Rosa Blanda, diploid
Darlow’s Enigma, diploid
Pretty Poly Lavender, diploid
Autumn Damask, tetraploid
Duchess of Portland, tetraploid
Rose de Rescht, diploid
Old Blush, diploid
Carefree Beauty, tetraploid
Stanwell Perpetual, tetraploid
Indigo, triploid (?)
The Fairy, diploid
Rouletii, diploid
Sweet Chariot, diploid
Magic Dragon, ???
Radrazz, triploid

I also have seeds for the following that I hope to have seedlings for next Spring.
Rosa carolina
Rosa virginiana
Rosa canina
Rosa gallica officinalis

Ok that was long, thanks if you read the whole darn thing.

Peter

3 Likes
2

Looks like you’ve put a fair amount of thought and research into your plans. Your track 1 species plan is very similar to my own, albeit focused around a very different species and climate. I’m interested to see your progress over the next few years. Hopefully you’re more organized than I am. I feel like no matter how much I plan I wind up just crossing whatever is blooming with whatever pollen I have available.

I definitely think one of the underexplored potentials in the North American species roses are there tolerance for shade compared to modern roses.

Have you considered working with r. nitida as well? It’s another NE native rose. If you have any interest in rugosa genetics you might look into the rugosa/nitida hybrids Nyveldt’s White or Corylus.

Really my only advice that I can give is to consider finding species hybrids which already exist just so you have stuff to work with in the 2-3 year period when you’re waiting for species seeds to bloom and get large enough to set hips. They might also wind up serving as a good “bridge” between the pure species genetics and the jumbled, inbred mess of modern roses.

Also another good asset is the app iNaturalist. People post pictures and locations of plants/bugs/animals, and you can search for specific species or just the entire rosa genus. It’s a good way to gather seeds or collect cuttings from wild roses and old ramblers that have persisted out in the wild for decades. Full disclosure, doing so might be illegal. And regardless of it that bothers you or not, there is still a deep moral imperative to forage ethically and with as little impact as possible.

Oh also I just made a post about giving away some pollen from a breeding stock rose named 0-47-19, which is a wichurana hybrid created by hybridizer Ralph Moore. Despite being a massive rambler it was used to create many of the popular miniature roses throughout the 20th century. I could mail you some if you want.

This reply was a lot more scattered than I anticipated.

2 Likes
3

Hello there @fiskrose , good morning/afternoon/evening to you! I hope all is well! This looks like a very interesting setup! I do hope all goes well! Question if you do not mind me asking : how would one one go about developing certain roses for urban spaces limited in space and light? from what ive looked up just now (I am 100% NOT knowledgeable nor experienced), certain roses like hybrid musks (low light), miniatures, polyanthas, minifloras, (small spaces) etc. help to recreate those environments! Soil wise, its stated that quality, well-draining potting soil is better than regular garden soil. LED grow lights are stated to help recreate low light environments as well within shaded areas! Also, container wise, pots 15-20 inches in diameter and 18-24 inches in depth are stated to help to create compact root systems. All that being said (if this may or may not be new information to you), I would love to know what kind of systems you have in place, if you have already created them! (Sorry if any of this information is not accurate. Mainly looking up things that are related to this field!)

4

Thank you so much for the great idea about searching for wild roses on the iNaturalist app. I had heard of this city portal before, but I haven’t figured that out myself yet.