My next order


I’m going to order the following roses, mainly because they may be interesting for breeding purposes, although I do not yet have a well-defined plan with specific goals in mind.

R. carolina alba

R. fedtschenkoana (repeats and Austin used it)

R. moyesii ‘Fargesii’ (tetraploid moyesii)

R. roxburghii normalis (what would it do crossed back with Kaethe Duvigneau?)

R. rugotida ‘Defender’ (we have some R. rugotida hybrids growing around that have a lovely purple color; if crossing with rugosa is problematic, maybe this thing will work)

R. pimpinellifolia altaica (does this one repeat?)

R. virginiana ‘Drummer Girl’ (wonder what it adds to plain virginiana)

R. virginiana ‘Harvest Song’ (same as above)

R. x mariae-graebneriae (I got seed from this thing, so maybe it works with other species)


Golf (r. multiflora x r. elegantula) (because it’s Dutch)

Hyde Hall (Austin’s R. fedtschenkoana hybrid)

Kaethe Duvigneau (are you really roxburghii?)

Lilac Charm

Lavender Dream

Malvern Hills (just seems a lovely rose)

Polareis (it is said to be ultra-fragrant)

It will take a while before they can be used for breeding, but I’ll just plant them in some way-back corner and see what they’ll do. Except for the ornamental hybrids of course, they’ll probably need some more care.

I wonder what will happen when I make some wild crosses, like: Defender x Porcelaine de Chine (r. rugosa x r. nitida) x (r. arvensis x r. chinensis minima) or vice versa. They will probably all die, but I’ll just try anyway.

Any comments on those already found to be useless?



About rugotidas they are very easy crossing with rugosa Progenies could be quite rugosa like as in my opinion rugotidas of the trade I know are three quarter rugosa. F1 rugosa x nitida I got either way all were much more nitida like and once blooming.

About virginiana hybrids for me they are both nice healthy wildlings with a lot of long standing nice red OP hips.

From similar crosses to Defender x Porcelaine de Chine I got small flowered large healthy open growing plants with some good rebloom. Reduced fertility is a possibility.

Pierre Rutten

R. pimpinellifolia altaica for me has had no repeat, but a six week bloom period that starts early (not earliest, but very early) and makes hips readily. Do watch for hip drop much earlier than most more modern roses.

Doing hybrids of Rosa chinesis with Rosa rugosa is very interesting. Felicitas Svejda did those kind of crosses in her early work before the Canadian Explorer Series and came up with some very interesting seedlings. Many of them were fertile because both parents are diploid.

If you are going to use ‘altaica’ in your breeding why not try some of it’s Kordes ‘fruling’ hybrids. Often when you use a species in crosses the seedlings look very much like the species parent. When you cross with a primary hybrid there is much more variety in the seedlings, perhaps even repeat flowering.

Where are you located? How cold does it get there? That should be the greatest factor in selection. It sounds from your entry that you are in a cold location.

Pierre, good to know you already tried crosses similar to Defender x Porcelaine de Chine. Do you use Porcelaine de Chine itself much? It is an interesting rose, being a repeat flowering arvensis hybrid, but it gets blackspot here. Mine is heavily interplanted with salvias though. I have two ownroot plants now that I plan to plant in my parent-plants section. I also have Guirlande d’Amour, a repeat flowering multiflora hybrid. I need to find a diploid that sets big hips, becaus the hips of both Guirlande and Porcelaine are so small!

I tried to reply to your e-mail but the rejects my message. Is it correct?

Mark, I thought of using the Fruehling hybrids, but it is said they are susceptible to blackspot. It may be that this is derived from altaica, but maybe it is from the HT’s Kordes used. I don’t want to cross it immediately with modern hybrids, but with tetraploid species or species hybrids (r. fedtschenkoana, Hyde Hall, R. virginiana…). Now I only have to get a method to store the pollen…

I am located in The Netherlands, zone 7 maritime climate. It doesn’t get cold here, but temperatures can fluctuate. We had -20C in march last year, only one night, but it killed a lot of semi-tender plants. However, it’s not cold enough to be pursuing winter hardiness.


I ordered grafted plants of R. rox. normalis and R. virginiana from Hortico for March shipment. Im going to stick them way in the back on the property where I took out Fred Loads and Robusta since they require less care, will be better for the birds visiting and looked fun for hybridizing. I just hope R. virginiana wont be too much of a pain to prune out dead and gangly wood from.

I haven’t used Rosa fedtschenkoana for breeding yet, but acquired it on the recommendation of another hybridizer who extolled its potential.

An interesting note from Roger’s Roses regarding R. fedtschenkoana: “Recent DNA research in Japan (Iwata, Kato and Ohno) has shown that this rose is one of the three parents of the Damask roses (‘Gene’ p.53-59, December 2000).”

I’m not sure how much can be inferred from that…