Just wanted to share a picture of a well-formed flower on one of my favorite hybrids. They hardly ever open this way.
Link: www.koolpages.com/hybridizer/Rose/multifloraXrugosa.html
Wow, that’s beautiful. None of that rugosa-muave color, and beautiful old garden form.
Let’s hope you could convert it to a tetraploid–
How
I think that kordesii is a tri-species hybrid. I’ve seen Max Graf in books, and it’s very different from kordesii. My kordesii is double.
We know that rugosa and wichuriana are single. So if Max Graf pollinated itself, wouldn’t all resulting seedlings be single?
Exactly Enrique. That is very very very compelling evidence that R. x kordesii does not have ‘Max Graf’ as a pollen parent. Perhaps Mr. Kordes did self pollinate his ‘Max Graf’ flower, but somehow pollen from some double flowered rose (probably some tetraploid in his garden) got to his ‘Max Graf’ and produced R. x kordesii. I have a 4x double flowered version I raised (“R. x kordesii”) as well from an op of ‘Max Graf’. My suspicion is that the nearby ‘John Davis’ served as the male parent because of the flower form and color. I agree that there is a lot of potential to introgress genes from R. rugosa more, especially through these “amphidiploids” as we cross rugosas with other diploid species and chromosome double them.
Tom, I hope for great things from your new seedling as well. Please keep us informed with your progress.
Sincerely,
David
Thanks all,
And yes Baxter, it is very disease resistant as expected. The possibilities (if I can get a conversion) are definitely exciting.
Enrique, I know what you mean about kordesii. I’ve only had it for two years, but it has the look of something more modern, mixed into its parentage.
In all fairness though, I think that there may be something more modern introgressed into the multiflora that I used. It was easily recognisable as a multiflora, but the double-flowers and slightly-shorter-than-typical style hint at some sort of introgression. This particular multiflora also bloomed a little later than the others around it, which was how I found it.
I did find a few other multiflora’s in the area, with semi-double flowers, and also many of the singles had pink-tinted flowers. But, all of these other variations seemed to bloom at the same exact time as the single white ones.
Unfortunately, the identity of the double-flowered multifora, will have to remain a mystery since it died from rose rosette disease several years ago.
I do think that it was primarily multiflora though, even if it had a few genes acquired from some modern in its ancestry.
And David, I couldn’t have said it better, so I’ll just repeat what you said… “there is a lot of potential to introgress genes from R. rugosa more, especially through these ‘amphidiploids’ as we cross rugosas with other diploid species and chromosome double them.”
Congratulations, Tom! That’s a great looking bloom. Good luck with it! I’ve used a couple of rugosa hybrids in my chromosome doubling experiments, but haven’t gotten anything from them yet. I haven’t counted the chromosomes, so I don’t know whether they weren’t actually doubled, or whether they were doubled but not fertile.
Thanks again guys,
I’ve added a picture to that link above, to better show the foliage and the structure of the flower clusters.
Tom, have you got this image lying around somewhere new? I was going back through old stuff and found a dead link. Am keen to have a look. None of my multiflora x rugosa ever take.
Hi Simon,
Thanks for your interest! My old sites are gone, but I’ve been trying to get a little bit of stuff posted to a blogspot. Unfortunately I haven’t been able to check in very often lately and it’ll probably remain that way for awhile. So as long as you don’t mind some delay in response time, I’d love to answer any questions that you might have about this hybrid or any others. This particular hybrid is one that I still think has a lot to offer.
I just posted two old pictures of that hybrid at the link below.
Link: maprc.blogspot.com/2010/08/rosa-multiflora-x-rugosa.html
Thanks Tom, I’ll reply on your blog site 
Here’s an in-line reposting of that image:
Really beautiful Tom. Congratulations.
Very nice Tom! Is it fertile? If so, I’ll bet that it does have a lot to offer.
Jim Sproul
Yes, as I mentioned on the blog site, it’s a most beautiful bloom and I love the foliage. I’m curious as to which multiflora you used? Mine is a single white. If I put that with my rugosa all I’d get is more singles. Maybe if I put my 'Roseraie de l’Ha
Just read your reply… now I’m off to search for a double multiflora specimen
Oooooooer… I know… One of my tiny ‘Angel Wings’ seedlings which are about to flower for the first time They look very healthy and very multifloraish!
THAT is gorgeous. Reminds me why I DESPERATELY want to see waht ‘Plaisanterie’ and 'Roseraie de l’Ha
Thanks Robert.
Best of luck to you Simon, in finding a good multiflora / rugosa match. I’d probably try the double rugosa on single multiflora. And if nothing else, single on single isn’t such a bad way to go - at least you should get a hybrid with even more pollen production than this one. The ‘Angel Wings’ strategy sounds good too, except my lone ‘Angel Wings’ seedling hasn’t been very healthy here (not even close to the healthiness of the local multifloras).
Thanks Jim, it hasn’t set any hips ever, but I did use its pollen last season on one flower of ‘Joycie’ and have one seedling to show for it. I’ve also got two more hips of that same cross maturing as we speak.
Thanks Max. I look forward to seeing those ‘Plaisanterie’ and 'Roseraie de l’Ha
I tried putting ‘Baby Faraux’ and ‘The Fairy’ onto ‘Scabrosa’ and failed repeatedly.