Most used seed parents (10 or more)

The following is how many times a rose is listed as being

the seed parent in the MR11 database (those that were listed 10 or more times).

Peace 209

Queen Elizabeth 182

R. wichuraiana 155

Little Darling 130

Rise ‘n’ Shine 115

Frau Karl Druschki 102

Ophelia 100

Fragrant Cloud 80

Charlotte Armstrong 73

Independence 70

Joanna Hill 67

Tropicana 63

Crimson Glory 63

Masquerade 63

Pinocchio 62

Charles P. Kilham 59


Thanks for the lists. One thing I found curious however.

“Mister Lincoln” does not appear in either the pollen or

seed list. Being such a popular rose, I would have guessed

it to have been used at least occasionally for breeding

unless, of course it was sterile. I looked it up on and it claimed 26 (excluding Mr. Lincoln

climbing which I assume to be a sport) 1st generation

descendents. Now a few more of these could be sports, but

I would guess that is should have appeared on either the

pollen or seed parent list.

The list in my mind also presents a quandry for a breeder.

The most highly listed roses are likely good breeders.

However, do we want to retravel highly trammeled paths

again? The thing that came to my mind was a book on

hybridization, which unfortunately concentrated on cereal

grains. The author did make an interesting point. When

speaking about breeding for yield, he said the usual

process was to breed High yielder to high yielder. He said

that low X low was useless, but that High X Low often gave

very interesting results. If I can extend the analogy

(probably to the breaking point), If you were going to use

a highly used rose, I would only use it in conjunction with

a rose that was highly unused. Any thoughts on this?

Chis, regarding Mr. Lincoln - I used the program that came with Modern Roses 11 and found 14 cases where Mr. Lincoln was the seed parent and 15 cases where it was listed as the pollen parent.

The only thing that I can think of is that my program removed duplicate hits when a rose had more than one name and that may have dropped the number below 10.

I cannot do a one to one comparison now due to other uses of the computer that my version of the program is stored on (it is on my wife’s computer).

That’s an interesting list, I’m glad you posted this. Does the search criteria include roses that are sports? I was kind of surprised to see Lafayette had been used so much as a seed bearer, although I believe it has sported a number of times.

The program that comes with MR11 doesn’t always give correct results. I don’t have the program handy, but I believe that when you query for Mister Lincoln as a seed parent, it returns roses like Caramel Creme whose parentage is (Sunbonnet X Mister Lincoln) X Oldtimer. HelpMeFind has the same kind of error. I find 5 roses for which Mister Lincoln is the seed parent: Barbara Straus, Big Apple, Black Garnet, Luce di Todi, and Sonrisa.

Here are my numbers for some of the others on the list:

Peace 155

Queen Elizabeth 135

Little Darling 108

R. wichuriana 85

Fragrant Cloud 80

I excluded sports and included synonyms where appropriate, like Duftwolke for Fragrant Cloud.

Thanks Jim.

For those of you relatively new to this list: when Modern Roses 11 first came out, Jim and I each wrote our own search program. For my old memory practical time span, I do not remember if my version excluded sports. I am pretty such it compensated for synonyms.

As I mentioned it is now on my wife’s computer (which is my old computer). I did not mention it only operates under an older operating system that she rarely uses so requires a reboot to look at. Why don’t I install it on my present system? Well, part of the old memory problem is that I cannot find the Modern Roses CD nor the installable version of the program that I wrote! Sob, such is old age.