Does anyone know if Morden Sunrise can be used as a seed parent. I believe I saw somewhere that it was used as a pollen parent successfully.
Patrick
I got a plant last year, and it did set some hips this year (2-3, maybe) despite being pretty small.
Peter
I used pollen from Buck and Austin roses and it accepted pollen easily on a 3 year old plant.
I have worked with Morden Sunrise for 3 years, exclusively as a female parent in pots in a greenhouse. It has worked well for me. I would call its female fertility above average, although it is not the very best for difficult pollen. The seeds seem to germinate and grow well, and I have seen no sign that it can self-pollinate when standard emasculation is used (some roses shed pollen very early).
Davidson emailed me the article describing this rose, but the format didn’t come across right, and I didn’t get the complete family tree or the article publication date. This is quoted from the article ('Morden Sunrise
As far as I know, Hazeldean is a Percy Wright hybrid, not a Skinner hybrid. See link below.
My Morden Sunrise is rather scant in its blooming. Do others find that it is not floriferous?
The pedigree of ‘Morden Sunrise’ is 'Sunsprite x (‘Prairie Princess’ x #84) x (J6 x J5). Parents of #84 are Rosa arkansana, ‘Assiniboine’ and ‘White Bouquet’. Parents of J6 are Rosa arkansana (2), ‘Assiniboine’(2, ‘Adelaide Hoodless’,'Fire King (2)and ‘Austrian Copper’. Parents of J5 are Rosa arkansana, ‘Assiniboine’, ‘Hazeldean’ and ‘White Bouquet’.
J5 I regard as the most beautiful Rosa spinosissima cultivar ever developed. Semi-double, pink, orange and yellow flowers on a tall shrub. At one time it was sold in the U.S. and might still be available there.
'Morden Sunrise’generally does quite well on the Canadian Prairies, although in some locations it mildews badly in late summer. However, at the Edmonton, Alberta Devonian Botanic Gardens the plants have been infected badly by blackspot and they will be replaced next year with ‘Rabble Rouser’.
At Hole’s Greenhouses in St. Albert (Edmonton), ‘Winnipeg Parks’ is the best selling shrub rose. ‘Morden Sunrise’ is number two in popularity.
It would be good for someone to send information about J5 and J6, and pictures of them, to HelpMeFind. Maybe someone could write about these hybrids for the RHA Newsletter. Many RHA members would be interested to know more about these Canadian hybrids.
Peter, I posted on the gardenweb rose forum and got three answers so far. One in calif, one in Mn. one in Canada and all there just love the color,it blooms like crazy and no disease. Maybe they have theirs on root stock.
Patrick
I love the color too, but it surely does not bloom like crazy for me. Maybe we don’t have enough sun in this hollow. I think it gets only 5-6 hours of sun in the summer.
I should mention that the great achievement of the development of ‘Morden Sunrise’ was to get a yellow selection down to the size where it could be used as a bedding rose in cold climates. Especially when there is a tall (2 - 3 metre) cultivar (‘Hazeldean’) in the pedigree. Of course, since ‘Morden Sunrise’ is not a Ground Cover type of rose this can only happen if the cultivar winter kills severely in a Zone 2 or 3 climate, which it does. As a result it usually only grows to a maximum of one metre. It would be interesting to hear reports how tall it can grow in a much warmer climate than the Canadian Prairies.
It’s fine to use ‘Morden Sunrise’ in a breeding program, but where is the disease resistance to be found when using it? There is none. It’s extremely difficult to breed disease resistance yellows and there is nothing exceptional in the pedigree of ‘Morden Sunrise’ that will provide it.
For breeding disease resistant yellows, I would like to propose developing a breeding line similar to Rosa kordesii. Rosa kordesii has been quite effective for developing disease resistant cultivars. Rosa wichuraiana would have to be crossed with a white Rosa rugosa cultivar (Rosa rugosa alba, ‘Marie Bugnet’, ‘Schneezwerg’, etc.)and then an amphidiploid developed. The cross should be done both ways (‘Marie Bugnet’ excepted, because it doesn’t produce hips) to produce upright and spreading selections. The white amphidiploid then can be “painted” easily with any colour. I think I’ll start working on this project next year.
My Rugelda X R-15 does not get any disease in my no spray northern Ohio garden. A sister seedling does get some but still not bad.
Paul,
I look forward to seeing the products of your project. I’ve always thought that Rosa kordesii should be able to be recreated in improved forms. Another valuable development would be other analogous Rosa rugosa amphidiploids from crosses with Synstylae other than Rosa wichuraiana (for instance Rosa filipes, Rosa sinowilsonii, Rosa sempervirens, etc.). I’ve got a diploid hybrid of multiflora X rugosa that is just begging to be converted to amphidiploidy. (I’ll include a link below) Which reminds me of another point. In addition to your plan for white flowers, don’t forget to consider shooting for double-ness by using either double-flowered rugosas, double-flowered wichuraianas or both.
Henry,
That’s a really nice yellow – very saturated. And great to hear that it’s disease free. Is it a once-bloomer or repeater? I’m guessing once-bloomer, but I think it’s great even if it doesn’t repeat.
By the way, I’ve got five rugosa X Hazeldean seedlings that I can only hope, will have such nice yellow color when they get big enough to flower. I expect that they’ll be once-bloomers and probably very sterile (most likely triploids). They should be very healthy though.
Link: www.koolpages.com/hybridizer/Rose/multifloraXrugosa.html
Tom, yes it is once blooming. It is very tall - when I look out our second floor window, the tops are at eye level. The second seedling that gets some disease is about 5 feet tall. Its bloom is not as nice (still a once blooming yellow with double flowers). A third plant is only about 3 feet tall , small amount of disease, but has not yet flowered (it germinated in 2000).
This spring a year 2000 seedling of Prairie Harvest X R-15 flowered for the first time. It is yellow, but I do not have a picture of the opened flowers as I used the 2 buds for hybridizing. One bud did not take, the second may have (if it did it will only contain a few seeds as it is a small hip). I don’t think its pollen took on anything, but I am not sure as Thanksgiving is final hip picking time here.
I am sure that I got some hips from Rugelda X R-15 pollen on Carefree Sunshine this season. Hopefully, the seedlings will be repeat blooming.
I have sent others cuttings of Rugelda X R-15, but neither them nor I have gotten any cuttings to root so far. There are now 3 people working on using budwood; hopefully, these will work. With rose rossette disease always a possibility (I have had 2 cases so far), it would be good to get some other plants of it growing elsewhere so that its potential can be explored.
Tom,
Your Rosa multiflora x Rosa rugosa selection is impressive. If you look at a photo of the similar ‘Geschwind’s Orden’, you will note this cultivar apparently doesn’t ball as much as your selection. The difference could be that Geschwind used a typical Rosa multiflora, whereas you used a Rosa multiflora with something “extra” in it. I’ve always thought a Rosa rugosa x Rosa multiflora breeding program would have a lot of potential. It’s unfortunate very little has been done in this respect. The only drawback is that I would expect the progeny to be not as disease resistant as Rosa rugosa.
The ideal shrub rose would include Rosa wichuraiana (disease resistance), Rosa multiflora (high bud count, floriferousness)and Rosa rugosa (hardiness, attractive foliage, large fragrant flowers). There’s no reason why this can’t be accompished within the next ten years. Let’s get at it!
Paul
… preferably with a thorn count closer to multiflora than rugosa. Ouch!
I just remembered something. My guess is that Dortmund contains all of these. We know wich and rugosa for sure. But I am for certain that it contains strong polyantha lineage from the various seedlings Ive had from it. And that beautiful foliage…
Thanks for the compliment Paul. I just went and looked at ‘Geschwind’s Orden’ at HelpMeFind and I see that it opens beautifully. As you mentioned, the multiflora I used (which I’ve unfortunately lost to Rose Rosette Disease) probably had a little something non-rugosa introgressed into it. It was very close to typical multiflora – differing only in it’s extreme doubleness, slightly shorter style-column and slightly later bloomtime. The rugosa I used was very typical (nothing special) rugosa – dark pink with five petals. I’m wondering if maybe Geschwind used an improved rugosa with a typical multiflora. The foliage definitely looks different from mine also. But differences could also be due to the direction of the cross. I used multiflora as the seed parent, where Geschwind apparently did the reverse. As for disease resistance, here in Maryland, the F1 is about equal to its rugosa parent in that department – very healthy. But sorry “jadae” (Mike?) it’s also just about as thorny as rugosa. And that’s a very interesting point about ‘Dortmund’. I’ve never used (or even grown) it. But I’ve often considered trying it out.
Paul, I’d also like to use two different moschata derivatives to breed rugosa amphidiploids. Neither has bloomed yet (I had to pot them up for a move), but they’re both quite healthy. One is moschata X wichuraiana (5 seedlings). The other is moschata X a pleasantly scented white China called ‘Ducher’(2 seedlings). I would use moschata itself, but it hasn’t been the healthiest here and I think I might have even lost it completely. These seedlings from it, seem to have a lot more health and vigor. Hopefully they’ll pass on it’s floriferousness and great scent.
In any case, I’ll second your rally. “Let’s get at it!”
Yeah my name is Mike or Michael. Jadae is just an online name that stuck on me (and that I use for online games to relax to!). Dortmund has been wonderful to me so far. I crossed it to all short, stalky modern large-flowered types this year to see if I can get some interesting floribundas out of it. A large chunk of seedlings usually come out dwarf. An example would be Dortmund x Freedom. Also note that Moore has used Dortmund a lot as well. I think it is a very valuable rose to use.
I have used Dortmund. It seems to dominate whatever it is crossed to. If I go into my garden and look for the healthest looking seedlings, chances are they will have Dortmond as one of the parents. Unfortunately, they will probably also end up as very large climbers with single flowers. I wonder if starting with one of Moore’s crosses would not be a more “efficient” way to go.
Tom (and, of course, others), I was not going to pick any of the open pollinated Dortmond hips (also from one of his open pollinated seedlings which is a 12 foot monster with more purple single flowers). If you would like some, let me know.