I am extreamly intrested in this rose after reading Karl King’s “Inheritance of yellow flower color in roses”. When I read this article, I then remembered my Sutter’s Gold X Renae seedling. It is very fragrant equally or more so to Sutter’s Gold. While Renae has a good fragrance itself, it is no way potent to Sutter’s Gold.
The seedling itself is a pinkish carmin color. The form is rather like an David Austin rose and very double. In cool wheather, it can even look like a minature version of Madame Isaac Pereire. It isn’t thornless, but there is a lack of thorns. While not disease resistant, it is not disease prone. I’m assuming that this rose is a triploid.
Now my goal was to cross this rose over to fragrant miniature like Cafe Ole and Pacific Serenade. But after reading Karl King’s article, I thought it would be intresting to cross this with a rose that had a “carotene-derived perfume”. My thoughts came on Mevrouw and it would be an intresting cross this fragrant polyantha to my seedling. I see that it has R. foetida in its heritage. And so my question is:
Has any who has worked with Mevrouw gotten any yellow seedlings from it? My intial plan is to cross my seedling as the hip parent.
Link: www.bulbnrose.com/Roses/articles/yellowrose.htm
Enrique,
I raised a seedling from ‘Mevr. Nathalie Nypels’ that was very pale yellow, and quite fragrant.
‘Gnome’ (Leenders) light yellow and very fragrant, was raised from a seedling x Mevr. Nathalie Nypels.
So, yes. The fragrance of Nathalie is carotene-derived (mostly from R. foetida bicolor, but some from Comtesse du Cayla). To recover the yellow, we need to eliminate the carotene-cleaving trait, which appears to be linked to the cluster-flowering trait. I suggest a China.
I would love to see what comes from a cross of Nathalie x Old Blush, or from Nathalie x Fortune’s Double Yellow.
By the way, Mevrouw is pronounced MEE-frau (according to a Dutch friend) and is equivalent to Mme. or Mrs.
Eliminating the yellow… that’s not what I want. I would gladly sacrafice yellow that wasn’t fragrant then a non-yellow with a good fragrance.
Well, at least I can hope for light yellows… I don’t see this happening for my seedling unless I collected a lot of seedlings, but nonetheless I think it will be intresting to raise a polyantha.
Perhaps a Nathalie and Perle d’Or cross would result a yellowish polyantha type…
Since I grow R. moschata abyssinica, it will be intresting to cross that with, say, Baby Love-- maybe I’ll get results that you said. I grow the old alba rose Suaveolens, but I haven’t used it much. Maybe I will cross it with Baby Love this year… Germination takes long. I’ve only basically crossed it with Queen Elizabeth only.
Or perhaps Leonie Lamesch.
I don’t remember Leonie Lamesch having a fragrance… but it is wonderfully thornless…
Its kinda sweet but the blooms are so tiny. I just thought it was a good idea because it has a lot of yellow in it for its class. Plus I know it is fertile.
I guess I wasn’t clear. Carotene-cleaving is the ability to break yellow carotene into fragments that become fragrant when oxidized.
Rosa moschata produces carotene, which you may see early in the morning on cool, cloudy days. But the carotene-cleaving enzymes eventually degrade the carotene to produce the musk fragrance.
Chinas seem to lack the ability to break carotene, which is why I suggested them for crossing with ‘Mevr. Nathalie Nypels’.
Look at the forms of Rosa banksiae. They are either yellow or fragrant. The pale yellow forms are intermediate in both color and scent. That’s the difference between cleaving (fragrant but non-yellow) and non-cleaving (yellow).
Since both ‘Mevr. Nathalie Nypels’ and ‘Perle d’Or’ are fragrant, you will probably get many fragrant offspring, but yellows are doubtful. We need parents that do not use up carotene to make perfume. Like the Chinas.
A deep yellow floribunda, like ‘Allgold’, crossed with R. moschata should produce very fragrant offspring with yellow flowers that fade as the carotene is converted to perfume. I wouldn’t count on any yellow at all from a cross of R. moschata with ‘Mevr. Nathalie Nypels’, though the offspring should be pretty and sweet scented.
You might try crossing R. banksiae lutea with ‘Old Blush’ if they are available.
Link: www.bulbnrose.com/
Well, I have Purezza. It’s been hard to get any hips, but I’ve only used tetraploid roses that are physically unalike to it like R. kordesii.
So I’m going to cross it with the diploids I have: Cecil Brunner, Perle d’Or, The Fairy, R. foliolosa, and if my cutting blooms, R. moschata (it’s already starting to make leaps in growth. Next year I have to move it to the lawn where I will train it to be a tree-- just like the one at Santa Clara University)
But if I do get climbing Old Blush and it blooms, I will make sure to make the cross.